Confused by Flite Test’s direction
- Thread starter mcmoyer
- Start date
PsyBorg
Wake up! Time to fly!
Well my biggest take on molded foam name brand vs FT / Jon Overstreet is The FT team will cut you a kit at any times. With the molded foam once they get done to run and the spares sell out the corporate run guys will be like too bad so sad buy one of our new models that will be obsolete as well in two years. then you factor in shipping spares when you crash as well as wait time to get back in the air when an FT part can be cut and replaced in under an hour or two depending on what model and how bad the damage is. THAT is where the cost savings is biggest.
mcmoyer
Active member
I got to thinking about some of the responses about not having plans for the plane. Some of the suggestions were to take photos and use the leftover foam board as a template. If it's really that easy, what's to stop a foreign company from doing the same thing, especially since they'll have more resources at their disposal and probably have a lot more accurate representation. I'd rather get charged a bit more for the SBK and have them slip a printed copy of the plans.
I can't help but see a comment like this and recognize it for the ignorance that it is.
And by ignorance, I am hoping that it is only because you are speaking without the benefit of knowledge.
Here's what I mean by ignorance.
You're on a forum that costs money, and yet you're getting to use it for free.
You watch a show that costs money to create, and you get it for free.
The forum still hosts all the original plans that are the result of employees designing, prototyping, and drawing plans, which equals hours of paid labor, which is available to you for free.
The online store which I am guessing people do want, costs money to maintain.
The staff required to build, package, and ship the products aren't working for free.
The buildings, and equipment, weren't donated, the utilities need to be paid, all of this is an expense, and without any of it, there would be no show. Again, a show you get to watch for free.
Flite Test formed the FTCA to fight for our rights to fly, and whether you join or not, they're still working to protect the hobby, so you get that benefit for free.
Flite Test is working with STEM programs to get the hobby into schools, to get more people into the hobby, and with that, increasing the power of our voice in Washington. In addition to that, the more people flying, the more people buying products, the more incentive there is for businesses to create new products for us (and yes, this is commercialism)... and you're getting all of that for free.
Hell yeah they need to make money to pay wages. You have this giant wealth of resources available to you for free. And because so much of it has been given to you for free, it's easy for you to be ungrateful, and tell us how you think Josh Bixler, and the rest of the Flite Test team is all about commercialism. Don't tell us that you're "grateful" then spit in the face of the people who have worked so hard to provide you for what you take for granted.
But other than that, I have no strong feelings on the subject.
PsyBorg
Wake up! Time to fly!
There is no stopping the foreign companies. Worse, is that it happens here in the US too.
I have been helping with customer support questions. I tend to do the ones that are not product related, but several store related ones slip through and end up in my inbox. I had seen the emails about poor quality control in the kits, and from what was being said it was obvious they were not Flite Test kits. They were buying poorly cloned kits, being sold as FT kits.
I am sure that if they were not being marketed as FT products, it wouldn't have been as big a deal, but when FT's reputation was being impaired by these fake kits being sold, they had to step in.
PsyBorg
Wake up! Time to fly!
THAT is the whole reason they will only be available thru FTCA if released is they have several agreements in the process stating use is only for self and not commercial use. This even gives them a little more of precedent to successfully go after people who abuse that agreement when people do do that.
Entitled people who think they can make a living off others efforts will try anything so they don't have to do any work. Their broken brains think "Free" means they can do what they want. They are also the first ones to cry if someone looks at something of theirs funny or somehow costs them money.
i'm a newbie, so there are plenty of free plans still available to me that i have not built yet.
i also love the video's, and josh and company do a great job. i understand that their plans were being usurped by unscrupulous dealers around the world, and what they have had to do to protect themselves.
although i'm still supporting the store, buying odds and ends, i'm kind of watching from the sidelines to see where we're going.
i don't expect anything for free, and appreciate that josh has enough beginner planes in the loop for newcomers to get started whenever they want.
like any business, flite test will sink or swim based on the decisions they make, and the innovations they create.
i believe they will swim, as i don't see a viable competitor. hopefully, the plans, kits and videos will keep coming!
i also love the video's, and josh and company do a great job. i understand that their plans were being usurped by unscrupulous dealers around the world, and what they have had to do to protect themselves.
although i'm still supporting the store, buying odds and ends, i'm kind of watching from the sidelines to see where we're going.
i don't expect anything for free, and appreciate that josh has enough beginner planes in the loop for newcomers to get started whenever they want.
like any business, flite test will sink or swim based on the decisions they make, and the innovations they create.
i believe they will swim, as i don't see a viable competitor. hopefully, the plans, kits and videos will keep coming!
That's fine!
I'm not sure you'll find a bigger supporter of what FT does than me. But... very rarely will you see more than 1 or 2 FT designs in my fleet when I go to the field.
I'm not a builder. I wish I was, I sometimes try, but that's not my passion. And it's awesome that FT still has a lot to offer someone like me, even if it's not the plans or kits.
Honestly the thing that has me the most excited at the moment is the potential for the FTCA and what it can mean for the hobby. I really hope that FT Groups takes off now that there's someone who can dedicate the time to making it, and the FTCA work. Hopefully the people who are drawn in for the free plans, get to see the true benefits that FT provides, and that's the access to the great community that has developed around a show about guys making foam airplanes, and turning that into friendships and family bonds.
***Meant to add a picture...
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Josh talks about this in some interviews and I am sure it was touched upon in the podcast.
With the relatively cheap costs of Chinese imports, the sales side of the hobby is in a race to the bottom. Products are being sold direct so cheap that US production can't compete. Also, the hobby shops are not able to pay staff, rent, utilities and still offer the products at a price that is competitive with what is coming in off the boat.
I think the reason we've seen a price increase is Josh's attempt to support local hobby shops. They need to sell the kits from the FT store at a price that isn't undercutting the brick and mortar locations they're partnering with. I know the comment was made about "commercialism". I hate to say it, but the hobby runs on commercialism. If there's no sellers with products, there's no buyers, and without buyers, there's no hobby.
I love the fact that Josh and the team are working to help revitalize the local hobby shop. Josh does an amazing job in an interview with PiXL Drone Show, episode #25.
A repeated complaint from hobby shop owners is that customers keep buying from the internet. What they fail to realize, is it's their own fault. They can NOT compete with the internet for pricing. And with Amazon and 2 day delivery, even having it in the store doesn't mean you as the customer will get it quicker locally. You can often order it online, and have it delivered long before you get the time off from work to drive to the closest hobby shop.
So, they need to focus on what they can offer that the online vendors can not, and that's the in store experience. That doesn't mean having skilled and knowledgeable staff behind the counter. As we all know, getting any staff is a challenge these days. But as Josh mentioned if the hobby shops can make their stores a destination for hobbyists, with space that groups and clubs can use for builds, or meetings, then they'll develop a customer base that has a loyalty that you won't see in online shopping. Flite Test being the exception of sorts. They provide an online meeting place for us, and that has generated a customer support that is not common in e-commerce.
And in closing...
at the end of the day, builders are builders, and flyers are flyers. Someone that JUST wants to fly will never see value in a foamboard kit. But someone who wants to build something, will pay MORE for the kit, than the completed product. If you don't believe me, go look at the price of a balsa kit. You can buy the PNP foam version of that airframe for quite a bit less. I'm not a builder. I'd prefer to buy it RTF. I have an e-Flite Taylorcraft new in the box. I take it out every year or two, think about building it, and then put it back in the box. If you want to know how long I've had the kit, I think this will give a clue...
Which is pretty much exactly my point. You're not going to the LHS for the prices. So what would they have to do to get you in the door?
nothing they can do until covid is over. then i'll be beating the door down with a battering ram.
i have always enjoyed kibbitzing with the staff, and just wandering around the store looking at everything.
i always wind up leaving with something i didn't come in for.
covid aside, classes and meetings are a great idea, especially for younger people and newbies.
i have always enjoyed kibbitzing with the staff, and just wandering around the store looking at everything.
i always wind up leaving with something i didn't come in for.
covid aside, classes and meetings are a great idea, especially for younger people and newbies.
I have been to a handful of LHS in the last year. Sadly, It is a dying breed. Many hardly have any stock on hand, and most are just selling new old stock that they have dug up. I did find one LHS that had a few FT models. Need to swing by there tomorrow, as last time I was in, they had just moved into a new store and didn't have all their stock transferred over. They used to have 5 or six stores in town, now just one.
Hopefully it's not too late.
I think Josh has hit the nail on the head with this solution, of making hobby shops meeting places to create experiences, and not just to buy a product.
As I said, it's about the one thing that the LHS can provide that an online vendor can not.
Yeah, this store had a building area at their old store and was setting one up at the new location. I'll try to get pics if I make it there tomorrow.
I wouldn’t say that was “SOOOO off the mark”. He hit it pretty close to be in center in fact. You’re right that FTCA members (like myself) will occasionally get free plans, but none of them will be the master series plans since they belong to John. And @TheFlyingBrit is by no means one of those “free plans” guys, he’s one of the more reasonable guys on here and most of what he said was very true.
PsyBorg
Wake up! Time to fly!
It IS exactly on the mark. He made a statement without having facts to make it by. He stated that the now non public plans were a product of commercialism and greed. Had he used the available information not only here in these forums but the many other interviews Josh has done in other RC related places he would know they are there to try to protect the investment in their product. The plans are STILL free just not as easily accessible then before.
As far as a Master series plane goes if people are too cheap to pay for one then suck it up and do as Jon did and blow up normal plans and adapt. Use the techniques Jon has developed or come up with your own. Crying on forums or on Facebooger because you cant have something you want is on the same level as the kid throwing a fit in a store where he cant just reach in the candy racks and take what it wants. Bottom line is quit crying about it all. If your not willing to adapt and grow with the ever changing world then you need to kick your parents in the shin for failing to teach you.
For what its worth Ian may not be one of the "free plans guys" but he did arrive with a bit of a chip on the shoulder. He has since started adapting as we all have to the culture here and is less of the crotchety old man then when he arrived so I agree he is becoming one of the good guys.
Fair points, I see what you’re saying. Just for the record I’m all for supporting ft and their future. I’ll continue to buy speed build kits, their electronics, going to Flitefest, etc. And of course giving back in the ways I can through this forum and the FTCA.
Something I'd love to see is a "Yelp* review app for the hobby shops. (Something to add to a future FT/FTCA app?). Something that can be updated to show where the LHSs are, and what they do and don't offer.
One I liked in central FL, had a sign with a price list for servicing models. Plenty of hobby shops owners would complain that people would bring in models they didn't buy in the store and the people wanted advice or repairs. Instead of just complaining about it, this shop did something, they started charging for their time. I thought this was an excellent solution.
