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Experimental Reverse Staggerwing Bipe Based on the Sorceress!

#1
SO after seeing Lockey from RCgroups work on the Sorceress and CraftyDan taking on a Sorceress build I finally got inspired to try my hand at it. If you are not familiar with the Sorceress it is a Reno racer reverse staggerwing bipe from the 70's.
Sorceress drawing.jpg
There is not really any "plans" for it but with a single blueprint page and some pictures from the Udvar-Hazy Center, I was able to get a feel for the size and shape of the plane.
sorceress jp.jpg
The bottom wing was the big challenge. How to make that up sweep angle? What I did was to take the wing and cut out the width and 2x the cord because I folded the top over to make a small airfoil. Leaving the lower section in 1 piece then I divided the top of the wing into 4 sections. I then scored the lower wing to make it flex in the needed direction and added sections of BBq skewers to make the airfoil. I then used 2 spray can lids to hold the center section up while the glue set up and then glued the outer sections into place.
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The top wing is really a straightforward design with the same cord as the bottom wing.
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The fuselage is really straightforward in its design and same with the horizontal and vertical stabilizer I just incorporated some of the FT design elements in it to have clearance for the movement of the control surfaces.
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Here is a test fit of the parts
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Now for some servos and the motor. I added some balsa square stock into the fuse to strengthen the thing because the motor is a Fire Power 3836 1100kv hog, It will be spinning a 10x7 prop.
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I made a canopy for it and then added some cowling enhancements.
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I still have to install aileron servos and make a battery box lid along with landing gear and the wing cabanes. I hope that won't take too long. I am not to sure on how to find the CG on this thing? So if ya know let me in on the secret please! I post more as I complete it, Stay tuned!
 

DamoRC

Well-known member
Mentor
#2
Wow - what a cool looking plane! Looking forward to seeing this one in the air.

On the CG thing, any of the online calculators that I have seen use the plan view dimensions of the wing and horizontal stabilizer (root and tip chords and span for wing and horizontal stabilizer and distance from wing leading edge to horizontal stabilizer). Even if the wings are on different levels, in a top down plan view, do they overlap? Could you treat them as a single wing for the CG calc?

DamoRC
 

Craftydan

Hostage Taker of Quads
Staff member
Moderator
Mentor
#3
Got tired of waiting on me huh?

I completely get that ;)

She looks good!

For CG, you can either use a Bip wing calculator (they do overlap . . . but I'm pretty sure they made it Juuuuust enough to stay inside the biplane category, so it isn't by much) . . . or you can cheat.

Lockey's came out 25-30mm FORWARD of the upper leading edge. His span was 1220 mm . . . measure yours and you can scale that CG point accordingly.

I haven't seen a Bip calc that can do complex geometries -- shapes like these are pretty rare on bips -- so finding MAC would likely need to be done by hand. I recommend cheating ;)
 
#5
Got tired of waiting on me huh?

I completely get that ;)

She looks good!

For CG, you can either use a Bip wing calculator (they do overlap . . . but I'm pretty sure they made it Juuuuust enough to stay inside the biplane category, so it isn't by much) . . . or you can cheat.

Lockey's came out 25-30mm FORWARD of the upper leading edge. His span was 1220 mm . . . measure yours and you can scale that CG point accordingly.

I haven't seen a Bip calc that can do complex geometries -- shapes like these are pretty rare on bips -- so finding MAC would likely need to be done by hand. I recommend cheating ;)
Oh no, not at all!


I have had this in my build list for about 4 months and with winters firm grip and a fresh 14 inches of snow today and a scalding case of cabin fever I had to put pencil to paper and knife to foam.

Thanks for the input on the CG, we'll just have to feel it out and go for it!:cool:
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
Mentor
#8
That is still today one of the coolest air frames EVER. I was happy to see Dan taking it on for the Flite Fest racers. Now we get a preview with this one. Can't wait to see either of them in the air.
 
#9
I have the landing gear formed up and the servos in the wing for the ailerons, I am sorting out the landing gear mounting and reinforcement for it. I won't be out too soon with it as winters recent prank laid 14" of the premium white stuff all around and the field will be a mud pit for some time after it melts but I will keep adding to this as I progress on the build.
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JimCR120

Got Lobstah?
Site Moderator
#12
Anybody ever try covering their plane in foil, shiny side out? This plane is so exotic, I think an extra shiny finish would really accent that. What are you planning for a finish?
 
#13
Well I was thinking a paint job but I don't know. A shiny finish like a chrome or polished aluminium would be cool but I would think it would add some serious weight. Have to research options on that.
 

Craftydan

Hostage Taker of Quads
Staff member
Moderator
Mentor
#14
Jim,

Couple of options . . . still exploring which I'll choose and haven't heard what Viper is planning.

Cheapest is AL tape. Quick and easy, takes panel lines well, but will show any crumple from a hard landing, and probably the heaviest. Double scale bonus . . . the full scale airframe is Aluminum skinned XPS, so it's not far off the scale construction technique.

Paint is a good "fun-scale" option. Gives the impression and looks nice from the air. From the ground? It's acceptable. Coupled with glass and polished finish it could look downright impressive, but weight and effort can become significant here as well.

Nicest I've seen: metalized tape. Super light, super shiny. Had a friend re-cover a HiTech Zipper with some that he . . . re-purposed from end-rolls at work. Absolutely stunning, and exactly what I'm looking for. I've been looking for some that won't cost a fortune for mine. Closest I've seen is some metalized mylar tapes. Haven't picked one yet to try, but I've got to get mine built before I can decorate her . . . and not quite that far yet ;)
 

Mid7night

Jetman
Mentor
#16
I vote for he Al tape route, but I'm biased because that's exactly what I did on my "Metal Mustang". You're right, it takes panel lines really nice, and it also is able to be burnished with a Scotchbrite pad for a nice brushed look in places.

ProTip: Put the Al tape on the desired side of your foam after cutting it out but BEFORE folding and gluing up the main pieces. You can always go back and rough up or locally peel back join areas if you need to glue where tape is. It just makes the large applications go on a LOT nicer.
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
Mentor
#17
What about trying that "Flashing" tape they use these days around window installations? That stuff is very shiny and pretty light weight from what I saw when the were remodeling where I live last summer. It also seems strong as all get out.
 

DamoRC

Well-known member
Mentor
#19
Nice idea and the pro-sheen stuff looks good. Looking forward to seeing how it works you because I would like to try one of the colored versions.

DamoRC
 

JimCR120

Got Lobstah?
Site Moderator
#20
I see you bought the tape already and I'm sure you will make it look great but I'll through this in anyway to contribut. I made a tabletop hotfoam cutter some years back. For some reason my wife thought is was okay to scrap it:mad: during one of her tidy-up thngs she does (Have I mentioned the benefits of a workshop? This was prior.) but it was a beauty. I 3M sprayed the top and applied a sheet of heavy duty aluminum (aluminium for you over the pond) to it. It was a great blend of form and function (though my next one will be made to follow templates) and not hard at all.

I understand foam aircraft structures have curves and softness that my tabletop didn't of course. Just throwing that option in to be noodled on.