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FF22 “Dawn patrol” challenge Ilya Muromets

#1
I’m currently working on a Sikorsky s23 ”Ilya Muromets“ for the dawn patrol challenge. It will be 1:12 scale (still BIG), and I’ll try to make it look as scale as possible, but no promise. This is also the first plane I’m designing so advice is welcome.

so far I’ve made the main box for the fuselage off of this three-view
F3DFB931-4169-40A6-874C-96BFA5446946.jpeg


this is what that produced so far, the two sides of the fuselage

C0C539DB-F4C0-49B1-89AD-E3047A57748F.jpeg


I’ve also printed Fuel tanks and the front cockpit
E3387DB5-CE16-4635-A33B-10C79AF38D45.jpeg
 
#2
I’m currently working on a Sikorsky s23 ”Ilya Muromets“ for the dawn patrol challenge. It will be 1:12 scale (still BIG), and I’ll try to make it look as scale as possible, but no promise. This is also the first plane I’m designing so advice is welcome.

so far I’ve made the main box for the fuselage off of this three-view
View attachment 219863

this is what that produced so far, the two sides of the fuselage

View attachment 219864

I’ve also printed Fuel tanks and the front cockpit
View attachment 219865
Looking good but how will you balance it? With such a short nose
 
#3
From what I could find it balanced @ 75% off the leading edge to the trailing edge with such a big tail acting like a tandem wing, so I’m probably gonna try that.
 

quorneng

Master member
#8
If you are really going to fly with the CofG at 75% mean chord I would strongly suggest you fit a rate gyro at least on the pitch control. It will perform the same operations as the pilot did to correct for what was, at best, marginal longitudinal stability.
The S23 was only really flyable because it flew so slowly and more or less at one speed it gave the pilot time to correct things before control got out of hand.
You won't have that luxury on a model as at 1/12 scale will aerodynamically react 12 times faster. ;)
 
#9
If you are really going to fly with the CofG at 75% mean chord I would strongly suggest you fit a rate gyro at least on the pitch control. It will perform the same operations as the pilot did to correct for what was, at best, marginal longitudinal stability.
The S23 was only really flyable because it flew so slowly and more or less at one speed it gave the pilot time to correct things before control got out of hand.
You won't have that luxury on a model as at 1/12 scale will aerodynamically react 12 times faster. ;)
Thanks for the advice. Sadly I don’t have a gyro available, do you think moving the cg further forward would help with that? I’m not sure how forward I can get it but I can at least try.
 

willsonman

Builder Extraordinare
Mentor
#10
From what I could find it balanced @ 75% off the leading edge to the trailing edge with such a big tail acting like a tandem wing, so I’m probably gonna try that.
The general rule of thumb on staggered biplanes is to go straight up from the leading edge of the bottom wing to the top wing. I've done the mathematical way and this way and they are usually VERY close to the same. It's quick and dirty but, for me at least, it works every time.

Biplanes I have built that it's worked on: Great Planes giant Curtis P6-E Hawk, Aerodrome RC O-1 Tummelisa (built twice), SE5a (built two), 1/12 Gotha G.IV, Fokker D.VI, Kyosho Pitts S2C, Parkzone Albatross D.Va
 
#11
The general rule of thumb on staggered biplanes is to go straight up from the leading edge of the bottom wing to the top wing. I've done the mathematical way and this way and they are usually VERY close to the same. It's quick and dirty but, for me at least, it works every time.

Biplanes I have built that it's worked on: Great Planes giant Curtis P6-E Hawk, Aerodrome RC O-1 Tummelisa (built twice), SE5a (built two), 1/12 Gotha G.IV, Fokker D.VI, Kyosho Pitts S2C, Parkzone Albatross D.Va
Thanks for the help. The bottom wing is forward of the top on this plane, so should I just go down from the LE of the top to the bottom, or still just base it on the top wing?
 
#14
CE6FD3E8-97BA-446B-ADF7-10729BA2FDEB.jpeg

Ready for Flite Fest! Thanks all for the help on this plane, sorry about the really bad updates. I’ll still have some last minute things to do there, but we’re good so far.