First Bat Bone Build

[Craftydan]

BTW, if you've got a warped boom, the kk2 *will* compensate -- sometimes surprisingly well -- but an inherent drift is typically a result.

straighten the boom/mount and you'll loose any bias that angle introduces . . . but don't expect drift to go completely away.

 

[DDSFlyer]

For increasing I gains, is it a bad thing to have a higher I gain than P gain value? I think Kaptein Kuk himself recommended 100% P gain as an alternative setting?

I think I'll wait to replace the warped boom until it really needs to be replaced. Right now it's flying and letting me learn. I think I'm gonna try and fly more with the nano in acro mode to get the orientation flight better, it just was so much easier and I was able to do so much with that thing in SL mode...so deceiving how much I have to learn. I think it might be awhile before I strap the gopro on this thing for any real quality videos.

 

[DDSFlyer]

So I've been able to put the gopro on and hover around my little driveway area training ground. Boring footage but seems to be enough to determine there isn't much jello (yeah for David's camera tray rig!) now to get better at flying and go get some real footage.

Just a little flight question, when using the rudder and yaw movements I get that with the tail motor tilted it would lose lift compared to the front motors just staying stable, but is there any way to minimize the tail drop when yawing (is that a word?) in Acro mode? Other than adding forward stick movement that is. Is there's setting in the KK board to do this? Or just compensate with the sticks carefully or fly in self level?

 

[Craftydan]

Video or it didn't happen!!!! (yeah, most of mine is borring too -- it's stil a milestone!)

The default mix should be fine if you've got stable flight otherwise -- the mix shouldn't add throttle on a yaw, but the gyro control loops should.

I've got pretty flat piroettes on mine (not centered mind you, but it's a tricopter).

I'd run the P and I gain up a bit on the pitch axis -- if the stability can take it. The pitch gyro should hold a 0 change as it spins on the yaw gyro, and it should know it needs to react as the tail starts to rotate down. If the gains are too low, of course, it won't react fast or strong enough to appear like it's got it under control for you (why have a control board if it won't do the work for you ).

Also, double check the level of the board with the frame. If your board is tilted forward/back/left/right (in relation to the props) the gyro corrections will couple on yaw. If there's a left/right tilt, you may very well be commanding the tail to droop slightly as you pivot.

 

[DDSFlyer]

I will have to get more video with the gopro before wasting anyone's time but it will come sooner than later. I haven't been able to fly as much this week so I need to get back at tuning. I also re-heard one of David's rules of P gain being twice I gain. I am pretty sure mine isn't at that ratio and the numbers are much closer. I need to see if I can turn the gains up a bit more. As I try and just do a yaw pirouette my bat bone really drifts which causes me to correct or worsen depending on my dumb thumbs and orientation.
As far as the board, I really think I might remount mine as it just doesn't fit cleanly in-between the upper and lower bat bone frame pieces. Maybe it's shifting in flight. Hopefully remounting will help.
Then just when I think I'm getting it all right, I might switch out to the KK2.1 board and start all over...fun stuff!

 

[Craftydan]

That's a strong tendency for P vs. I -- great place to start, but not really a rule. It can be more or less than that. Start there then see how it feels.

Tri's will drift in yaw -- unlike quads the torque isn't generated around the CG, it's generated on only one end, and by a force pointing out only one side. Yeah, the curly-que it draws in the air makes a strong pirouette hard to hold, while even unbalanced quads will spin around a point.

Keep working on it, I'll be sweet when you've got it dialed in as you like it.

 

[DDSFlyer]

Ok the inevitable happened. Playing around in the driveway and wanted to do more maneuvers and kept on self level...ended up hitting the wall with the tail. Broken prop, 13-370 tail mount broken, servo arm broken (that may be a little hard to find, all the ones from my 9 gram servos don't fit), and one of the straight mount landing gear broken. This is all visually since it fell about 6 or 7 feet onto concrete. I really think the slightly twisted boom is contributing to my unlevel/drifting pirourettes.
I ordered some replacement parts for the tail mount (have some spare straight mounts already) and decided to add an Anycopter hub and screws so that I can build a hexacopter frame because I've been eyeing that project. I always get ahead of myself.
I think I'll take the time waiting for parts to build about ten new booms (maybe looking for a drill press or another way to make the holes straighter) replace my twisted front boom, and remount my KK board more securely (plus maybe make it easier to swap out the KK2.1 when I feel like it. Guess I need to focus on my planes for the next week and just get into the air!

 

[DDSFlyer]

So I've gotten all the parts replace (new landing gear parts replaced and tail servo assembly redone. New front right boom put on to remover the twisted boom. Remounted KK2 board flat with some double sided foam mount)
Powered it up, checked the motor layout and found that the motors were all going clockwise...weird it wasn't that way before the crash. Reloaded tricopter motor layout and two clockwise (m1, m3) and one counter (m2). Went to take off and immediate right spinning motion from the tail motor. Finally fixed that with switching the 4th channel from 100 to -100 on the rudder. Now it's better but have a strong right yaw when up in the air. Do I trim this out? Or is there some setting I messed up? I may restart with all the gain settings. I zeroed out the yaw I gains and have the p gain at 40 (for yaw). It's so hard when I get things right the first time and then have to trouble shoot the second time around...didn't learn it from messing up the first time...

 

[DDSFlyer]

Ok, never mind. Somehow it all worked out. Not sure what settings I actually fixed, maybe recalibrating for the third time and somehow it flies again! Flew with the gopro tonight and tried to get my inlaw's attention by flying up to their window (hehe...except that I don't wanna set off any law makers right now by showing the video) but as we all know the gopro sucks at night shots so it wasn't all that good video. But when I get home I may upload the moon views that I was able to capture. Now I just need my spot lights

 

[DDSFlyer]

Here's a video of the gopro on my bat bone. the bugs were fixed and I was able to fly it this weekend pretty stabilized. I think the improvements were from the straightened boom and remounting the KK2 on a double sided foam mounting pad instead of the case. It sits much lower and sturdier in the frame and without any movement (even though I was worried about vibrations) it feels a lot more locked in. Most of the video was in Self Level mode because I just fly better in it for now and it was in such a small backyard with my little girl.
http://youtu.be/t28ZHXgQvHc

 

[Mustang7302]

That looks like you've got a good hang of the controls and the craft flying nice and smooth! Well done!

I use the lid of the foam box that the KK2 comes in to mount the craft. Trim off the overhang from the lid around the KK2, punch holes in the foam, pass zip ties through the mounting holes, and loop them through the openings in the lower body plate. Works like a champ for me; haven't touched a single gain or bother flashing the firmware on my KK2.1 for the Bat Bone Tri.

I fly in auto level mode at least 95% of the time. Unless your looking to do flips and rolls, the self level mode gives you more than enough freedom to get in trouble. Flying FPV and you get way more docile on the controls and the self level mode makes it one less thing to worry about.

 

[DDSFlyer]

Yeah I used the lid of the KK2 case but I only sticky taped it to the board and the frame, never really stuck that well and was too bulky in the end. I ended up buying this foam sticky mounting material anyways and it cleaned it up and made it really secure (unless the stickiness unstickies...)

The flying is mostly in self level for sure. I can fly it like that pretty easily and with my Nano QX I throw it around a lot (and crash a lot!) but I still want to learn acro mode to get better at flying but prolly 85% of my flying will be in self level, it just diminishes the number of times I'll crash I think.

When I go to FPV it will all depend on how good I am as a pilot if I want to go acro or SL mode.

How are you liking the KK2.1? I still could switch mine out since I have 2 of those sitting around, but I may not if this thing just keeps flying as good as it is right now.

 

[Mustang7302]

The KK2.1 on my Bat has been rock solid on stock firmware and gains. I bumped the roll / pitch / yaw stick scaling to 60 to get it a little more maneuverable because it was so docile compared the quad I had built over Christmas. The easy method of hooking up voltage monitor was nice too.

But honestly if your current FCB is running well as it sits, leave it that way and enjoy flying it. If you damage it in a crash, then look at a 2.1 to replace it. Otherwise consider saving pennies to go to something more advanced like an APM after you have FPV hardware and a more capable transmitter.

 

[Cyberdactyl]

But be aware of the caveat DDS with having very low stick scaling and flying high on auto-level.

I almost lost my first quad one doing exactly that flying high. I was just learning and had my stick scaling extremely docile and was flying maybe around 250-300 feet at dusk with lights. It was somewhat windy and I had auto-level on. It was mandatory as I was so high I couldn't really make out the shape very well, so orientation was an issue. A gust of wind came up and started taking it away. The stick scaling was so low, it took full sticks to keep it from being blown away. I was reluctant to switch off auto-level because it was so far off, orientation was a guess. Luckily the wind died down and I was able to bring it down and back. I now have dual rates programed in to give me full 100% of everything with a flick of a couple toggles in a similar situation, although, I don't have my stick scaling nearly as severe anymore.

 

[DDSFlyer]

Yeah I have dual rates set up. I will slowly turn everything up as I get better at flying. The gains I have in SL mode I already turned up after this flight. I may increase the percentages on the dual rates and maybe increase the Expo too to make it smooth. Thanks for the advice.

 

[DDSFlyer]

A little video of the sunset in Carlsbad.

http://youtu.be/ashyTLSEG_0

Just added a SSG (super simple gimbal) and tested it out with the 9x4.7 props on it. Still trying to work the gains a little more I think. I need more or less gain when you descend with wobbles?

 

[DDSFlyer]

Here's the thread to the SSG (super simple gimbal) on RCGroups that I decided to add to the bad bone. Still has some quirks to work out. I don't think the HXT 9 gram servos are much up to the task. I need to work on the gains as well. Didn't think a hanging gimbal will work for the bat bone (I am saving that idea for the anycopter hex I'll be making) So I decided to try this out for aerial video.

 

[xuzme720]

...Still trying to work the gains a little more I think. I need more or less gain when you descend with wobbles?

That will happen as you descend through your own rotor wash. Not much you can do about it except keep some sideways movement in the descent so you aren't running directly through that disturbed air from the props.

 

[cranialrectosis]

Love that gimbal.

 

[Scratch]

Looking good! Wish I had some nice scenery like that around here. It's all white and cold up here...