FTFC20 Howard DGA-6 (Racing) designed by Mayan
- Thread starter mayan
- Start date
buzzbomb
I know nothing!
I like it! That's a great plane for this challenge! Just looking at some posts and comments, I don't think tail heavy would be the issue. It might FLY tail heavy, but it looks like the CG is right behind the pilot's head or even forward a bit. I think what it's going to suffer from is the short fuselage, aft of the wing. I think it would handle similar to the DR1. Except the wing needs to be forward more, to get the CG under it. That's going to be an interesting plane to fly!Recently I have been seeing a lot of threads titled FTFC20 and was wondering what I was missing out on. I did a bit of reading and understood it was a new comunity challenge and decided I'd join in the fun although I already have one to many projects going on. I talked to my son last night and asked him to help me decide which model to build out of a few that I showed him. So we made a deal he would choose the plane but he would have to help me get it designed in FB and built, and maidened. This is what he choose.
Here is a bit of history about the plane: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Howard_DGA-6.
And here are the plans I'll be converting to FB for the challenge: https://aerofred.com/details.php?image_id=81948.
Wish me luck...
The lessons you've learned on the Master Series Corsair build, a standard fold-over FT wing, and you've got this.
I'd say modify the PowerPod a touch, and attach the cowling to it. The cowling slides over the fuselage, the powerpod within, and a couple of skewers and done. Battery tray, motor, esc and all in a neat little package.
However you do it, I wish you luck!
*EDIT* Coming in late to the thread. I missed a lot that was underneath. Still, I wish you luck!
*EDIT*
mayan
Legendary member
It’s a work in progress but is very satisfying. I finished and am happy with the wings now planing out the fuselage. Trying to decide how to build it, if to build in two pieces or 1 and if 2 where to make the cut... So much thinking to doI like it! That's a great plane for this challenge! Just looking at some posts and comments, I don't think tail heavy would be the issue. It might FLY tail heavy, but it looks like the CG is right behind the pilot's head or even forward a bit. I think what it's going to suffer from is the short fuselage, aft of the wing. I think it would handle similar to the DR1. Except the wing needs to be forward more, to get the CG under it. That's going to be an interesting plane to fly!
The lessons you've learned on the Master Series Corsair build, a standard fold-over FT wing, and you've got this.
I'd say modify the PowerPod a touch, and attach the cowling to it. The cowling slides over the fuselage, the powerpod within, and a couple of skewers and done. Battery tray, motor, esc and all in a neat little package.
However you do it, I wish you luck!
*EDIT* Coming in late to the thread. I missed a lot that was underneath. Still, I wish you luck!
.
buzzbomb
I know nothing!
I figured you'd go with a central core, and formers. Then just remove the paper inside the outer skin and form it like a Master Series.It’s a work in progress but is very satisfying. I finished and am happy with the wings now planing out the fuselage. Trying to decide how to build it, if to build in two pieces or 1 and if 2 where to make the cut... So much thinking to do
mayan
Legendary member
For a while now I have been playing around with the Howard DGA-6 build that I am working on, but had my work bench busy in some co-op builds some which are still not done like the FT X-29. Cleared off most of what was on the workbench and got some more time to play around with DGA-6 fuselage. I tried designing something that would connect together like in the Master Series Corsair. The first method I tried using was kinda like putting blocks together.
That was the very first attempt, the formers for the bottom didn't clear out good, and the FB cover was larger than it should have been plus the angles weren't right. I didn't like it so I changed the plans and came up with up number 2, that would fold up.
I wrote down a few comments about changes and realised that I might not have enough room for electronics so I decided to change the plans again to make the tail section connect differently to the main section of the plane. and then I realized that I will have issues with the front section of the plane with formers and covers so trashed what I sat a whole night doing and started fresh.
And came up with this, which I am pretty happy with although it's yet to be built and covers added.
That was the very first attempt, the formers for the bottom didn't clear out good, and the FB cover was larger than it should have been plus the angles weren't right. I didn't like it so I changed the plans and came up with up number 2, that would fold up.
I wrote down a few comments about changes and realised that I might not have enough room for electronics so I decided to change the plans again to make the tail section connect differently to the main section of the plane. and then I realized that I will have issues with the front section of the plane with formers and covers so trashed what I sat a whole night doing and started fresh.
And came up with this, which I am pretty happy with although it's yet to be built and covers added
.
bracesport
Legendary member
@mayan - this is coming along nicely
I have a design to build (KK invader) for this challenge too (sadly can not start for a couple of weeks) - actually I am not sure how long this challenge runs for?
I have a design to build (KK invader) for this challenge too (sadly can not start for a couple of weeks) - actually I am not sure how long this challenge runs for?
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mayan
Legendary member
31st of January if I am not mistaken@mayan - this is coming along nicely
I have a design to build (KK invader) for this challenge too (sadly can not start for a couple of weeks) - actually I am not sure how long this challenge runs for?
.
Vimana89
Legendary member
I like how you did all your fuselage designs, they all looked nice to me even though some didn't work out how you wanted. I thought the first one with the box sides and molded top was a very crafty and efficient way to go, personally, but they all look great. Definitely a more complex shape than the simple box fuselage I went with on my 1939 P.A. Special, but I'm designing that one to be intentionally very easy to build. It uses a wide delta wing rather than a straight wing, but it is high mounted like the DGA-6, so it has similar stability. The prototype AET version is flying well and I'm finally learning how to use ailerons.
I'm looking forward to see how your DGA-6 build turns out and flies, because for one its cool, but I can also learn a lot. You have a lot more experience than me building and flying AET yank and bank, as well as more traditional types of planes and a few other varieties, where pretty much all my successful custom designs so far have been low aspect RET stuff, Nutball/Flyer stuff like my V Sliver slender delta and Floating Kidney. The '39 is my first really successful plane with ailerons, and also the first successful one of a more traditional style with a higher aspect wing, though the delta wing is somewhat uncommon on this sort of fuselage and tail. Think of it almost like a delta Scout.
I can definitely learn a thing or two watching some of your flight videos, and I'll be watching your build here pretty close, and how you fly it too. Best of luck, that's a good looking plane so far!
I'm looking forward to see how your DGA-6 build turns out and flies, because for one its cool, but I can also learn a lot. You have a lot more experience than me building and flying AET yank and bank, as well as more traditional types of planes and a few other varieties, where pretty much all my successful custom designs so far have been low aspect RET stuff, Nutball/Flyer stuff like my V Sliver slender delta and Floating Kidney. The '39 is my first really successful plane with ailerons, and also the first successful one of a more traditional style with a higher aspect wing, though the delta wing is somewhat uncommon on this sort of fuselage and tail. Think of it almost like a delta Scout.
I can definitely learn a thing or two watching some of your flight videos, and I'll be watching your build here pretty close, and how you fly it too
. Best of luck, that's a good looking plane so far!
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mayan
Legendary member
Huge progress today with checking out the legitedity of my plans and wow am I impressed with myself! Lots of pictures taken and so much to say about the build process. Its getting late though so you all will have to stay tuned and wait for tomorrow to get the full story . For now enjoy this picture.
Happy and pleased I am off to bed.
. For now enjoy this picture.
Happy and pleased I am off to bed.
mayan
Legendary member
Alright so following up on yesterday's post, let me tell you a little about the build and the process. So far I have been using a total of 2 sheets of FB (70x100 cm), out of which I built the wings and about half of the fuselage. The two sheets are not fully used up on space so I am guessing the whole build will end up being ±2.5 sheets. I am hoping to use a C pack motor on it with a 30A ESC, and 4-6 servos which I think might be 5g, although I am pretty sure 9g ones will work too. I am debating between 4 and 6 servos because I am not sure that I want to add flaps to it, maybe I'll just add them later if I feel the need for them. I also found a solution for the landing gear and thought up and idea of how to make them removeable, which I think helps with storage .
As for the build process so far. The build so far was pretty easy and straightforward for those who have built at least one FT plane in the past. As you saw the plans will end up looking exactly like the FT format, when I'll done adding and tweaking them. The wings were built in the same manner like in the Master Series Corsair, and are fairly easy to build compared to how intimidating they look. The fuselage itself is built a little more like the FT Edge 540 with slots that help you stay aligned properly, something I think the MS Corsair was missing. It also has formers to help shape the parts where the FB will need to be molded into shape, making it hopefully easier to mold. I was debating between poster board or FB to give the plane the round shape that it has and decided to go with FB simply because most of the roundness that the plane has is actually on the bottom a place that will usually take a beating.
Here are a bit of pictures and explanations as to how to build the first part of the fuselage.
First I cut out the parts, which took about an hour and a half, did it slow because I didn't want any mistakes.
Next I took the main fuselage part, cleared out the cavities, and did a B fold on it.
Put it aside and took out the next two parts the wing supporter and top hatch for the tail boom. I cleared out the cavities and glued the supporter on the opposite side of where I cleared out the cavities, and glued it in place putting most of the glue on the side of the top cover of the tail boom.
Quick stop to check that things are lined up according to the original plans, and we'll continue.
Next up is the electronics hatch and wing pressure support plate part that needs to be assembled and glued in place, these are the parts.
Cavities cleared out and attached to it again on the opposite side of the cavities is another wing supporter. I decided not to attach both to the hatch because it would make it hard to hold in place properly without smashing it up, so using the table as my friend and again spreading glue on the sides of the hatch like in a B fold I placed the part in place and held it there for a bit.
Now to attach the front wing supporter and we'll be done with the top part for now. I put it in place and let it dry for a bit, then I was just to eager to check if the wings would fit and ran to get them. Kinda like the price was looking for Cinderella to fit her the glass shoe I was hoping it would fit in there. WOW it did and it fit so well that it was pretty much held in place and wouldn't move even when I tried shaking the plane upside down. At this point I realised a mistake that I did and wrote it down to fix on the plans the two wing supporters for the electronics hatch should be 0.5cm longer on each side that way they'll give extra strength by connecting to the side of the fuselage.
Next I opened up all the slots for the formers, elevator, rudder, and the electronics hatch although second thinking it just now I should have left them closed for a bit longer at least the one for electronics hatch. Next thing I need to do and I am sort of taking a break from it for now is check that the formers fit and plan out which will go first and why. The reason being is that once I start adding the former it will be harder to get a straight horizontal view of the plane. Which is why I am thinking that I'll first add the top formers, rudder and elevator and only then the FB molded covers for the bottom. These still need to be designed. Another thing that still needs to be designed is the cowl and power pod. I have an idea for the power pod but am kinda bummed out that it's not a swapable solution. Still need to lay down my options. Hope to sit on it some more later today.
.As for the build process so far. The build so far was pretty easy and straightforward for those who have built at least one FT plane in the past. As you saw the plans will end up looking exactly like the FT format, when I'll done adding and tweaking them. The wings were built in the same manner like in the Master Series Corsair, and are fairly easy to build compared to how intimidating they look. The fuselage itself is built a little more like the FT Edge 540 with slots that help you stay aligned properly, something I think the MS Corsair was missing. It also has formers to help shape the parts where the FB will need to be molded into shape, making it hopefully easier to mold. I was debating between poster board or FB to give the plane the round shape that it has and decided to go with FB simply because most of the roundness that the plane has is actually on the bottom a place that will usually take a beating.
Here are a bit of pictures and explanations as to how to build the first part of the fuselage.
First I cut out the parts, which took about an hour and a half, did it slow because I didn't want any mistakes.
Next I took the main fuselage part, cleared out the cavities, and did a B fold on it.
Put it aside and took out the next two parts the wing supporter and top hatch for the tail boom. I cleared out the cavities and glued the supporter on the opposite side of where I cleared out the cavities, and glued it in place putting most of the glue on the side of the top cover of the tail boom.
Quick stop to check that things are lined up according to the original plans, and we'll continue
.
Next up is the electronics hatch and wing pressure support plate part that needs to be assembled and glued in place, these are the parts.
Cavities cleared out and attached to it again on the opposite side of the cavities is another wing supporter. I decided not to attach both to the hatch because it would make it hard to hold in place properly without smashing it up, so using the table as my friend and again spreading glue on the sides of the hatch like in a B fold I placed the part in place and held it there for a bit.
Now to attach the front wing supporter and we'll be done with the top part for now
. I put it in place and let it dry for a bit, then I was just to eager to check if the wings would fit and ran to get them. Kinda like the price was looking for Cinderella to fit her the glass shoe I was hoping it would fit in there. WOW it did and it fit so well that it was pretty much held in place and wouldn't move even when I tried shaking the plane upside down. At this point I realised a mistake that I did and wrote it down to fix on the plans the two wing supporters for the electronics hatch should be 0.5cm longer on each side that way they'll give extra strength by connecting to the side of the fuselage.
Next I opened up all the slots for the formers, elevator, rudder, and the electronics hatch although second thinking it just now I should have left them closed for a bit longer at least the one for electronics hatch. Next thing I need to do and I am sort of taking a break from it for now is check that the formers fit and plan out which will go first and why. The reason being is that once I start adding the former it will be harder to get a straight horizontal view of the plane. Which is why I am thinking that I'll first add the top formers, rudder and elevator and only then the FB molded covers for the bottom. These still need to be designed. Another thing that still needs to be designed is the cowl and power pod. I have an idea for the power pod but am kinda bummed out that it's not a swapable solution. Still need to lay down my options. Hope to sit on it some more later today
.Looks like it's really coming together.
At first I was worried you might run into problems with the CG The plane looks relly snub nosed on the Photographs, but it looks like you got plenty of real estate for the battery in the nose.
If I were a little more competitively minded I would be bummed out that you're probably going to finsh your first design before I do even though I distinctly remember giving you advice on your first flights ever not too long ago... oh, don't the young ones grow up fast..
At first I was worried you might run into problems with the CG The plane looks relly snub nosed on the Photographs, but it looks like you got plenty of real estate for the battery in the nose.
If I were a little more competitively minded I would be bummed out that you're probably going to finsh your first design before I do even though I distinctly remember giving you advice on your first flights ever not too long ago... oh, don't the young ones grow up fast..
mayan
Legendary member
Yeah it is coming along good, more than expected. The real estate issue is why I changed the plans 180 degrees from the original.
If I were a little more competitively minded I would be bummed out that you're probably going to finsh your first design before I do even though I distinctly remember giving you advice on your first flights ever not too long ago... oh, don't the young ones grow up fast..
bracesport
Legendary member
she is a beauty alright - love the squat fuse!
mayan
Legendary member
Coming back to this, it was time to add the formers and covers. I started of by placing all the formers into their slots to make sure that they fit properly and that no design mistake were made. Guess what, a few design mistakes showed up, fixed them, re-printed the parts and cut them out again. Once done I had to decided what to start covering first so that I would be able to work on the rest of the plane with easy as the build moves along.
I decided to start with the front top section of the plane that way I would still have the ability to place it flat on the edge of the table. I started looking at the canopy and the round piece around the nose and saw another problem. The front wing holder seemed to be getting weaker so I cut up a 1cm table using an a fold and glued it in place.
I then placed the front former for the fuselage in place its also acts as the bas of the powerpod. The former didn't line up properly with side slots that I created to help keep things line up, so I closed them up with the cut outs from the former and fix the plans accordingly.
It was now time to mold the foam into place I tried doing so without removing the paper from the inside thinking that the gap isn't that big and can be bridged easily. I was wrong! so I removed the paper from the inside. I later removed more paper to allow this entire part of the nose section of the fuselage mold and twist into place. The gap was too wide and tall that it didn't mold easily so I removed off some of the foam to make it easier. At this point I tested another former that I had wanted to use to help hold down the foam cover. I ended not using it because it didn't help much, and was actually making it harder for me to place the foam covers with it.
I finished molding the fuselage sides into place and glued them down. Then I started working on rounded nose part and the canopy windows, and it didn't go well like the rest seemed too. I say seem to because looking back also there I had to fix, change, and do it over, but that was a breaking point in the project for me. I was annoyed and frustrated, willing to give up. Thinking maybe to skip this part and get back too it later, knowing that it will be harder to do that. I would plan a piece, cut it out, and test it; just to realize that it was far from even being OK. I advice with some friends on the forum (@Splinter189 and @Hai-Lee) who both gave me some great tips, that gave me some encouragement to keep trying. That's when I made peace with making cover parts!!! No the pieces I design don't fit perfectly off the bat but I found a way to make it less annoying, much faster and actually quite fun. I would design a piece, print it out and cut it with scissors on the lines, then I would try it on the plane and see what I need to change. It's not a fast process but less annoying than testing with foam. Once you are happy with the pieces and how the fit on the plane you can cut them out of foam and test them.
So I got myself some covers designed dry tested with paper a few times and was ready for the real thing. I printed out the plans one more time and converted them into foam pieces. I then did a final dry test after which I molded the pieces into place and glued the pieces into place.
I wasn't sure how to place the canopy window so I started playing around with it to see how it looks. The front window needed some bevel cutting to allow it to sit better.
I still had to plane the side part of the canopy window and starting planning it out and that's when I thought of doing it as one piece. I went back to AI and started getting the window piece created, 20 mins later I had it.
As you can see there is a gap between the canopy window and the side, so I designed a change to the fuselage piece and tested it out, and it seem to be in the right direction. There still was some changing that needed to be done and somethings that I still need to decide on. One thing that I decided to do is make the entire canopy window one piece it's already designed and was tested. It became late and after a week of not feeling well and going to work this morning I had to work, so I decided to take a break and do some tests and pictures of the work so far, enjoy.
Testing size to plan.
Pictures of the plane so far, even pulled out the wing to test with.
Not too happy with the canopy window though, it seems to far out. In the pictures I'll looked at yesterday it seemed to be out a lot might have been mistaken. Nevermind this is V1 which will take a beating anyhow, V2 will be the real beautiful beast. That's it for now, back to AI for more parts .
I decided to start with the front top section of the plane that way I would still have the ability to place it flat on the edge of the table. I started looking at the canopy and the round piece around the nose and saw another problem. The front wing holder seemed to be getting weaker so I cut up a 1cm table using an a fold and glued it in place.
I then placed the front former for the fuselage in place its also acts as the bas of the powerpod. The former didn't line up properly with side slots that I created to help keep things line up, so I closed them up with the cut outs from the former and fix the plans accordingly.
It was now time to mold the foam into place I tried doing so without removing the paper from the inside thinking that the gap isn't that big and can be bridged easily. I was wrong! so I removed the paper from the inside. I later removed more paper to allow this entire part of the nose section of the fuselage mold and twist into place. The gap was too wide and tall that it didn't mold easily so I removed off some of the foam to make it easier. At this point I tested another former that I had wanted to use to help hold down the foam cover. I ended not using it because it didn't help much, and was actually making it harder for me to place the foam covers with it.
I finished molding the fuselage sides into place and glued them down. Then I started working on rounded nose part and the canopy windows, and it didn't go well like the rest seemed too. I say seem to because looking back also there I had to fix, change, and do it over, but that was a breaking point in the project for me. I was annoyed and frustrated, willing to give up. Thinking maybe to skip this part and get back too it later, knowing that it will be harder to do that. I would plan a piece, cut it out, and test it; just to realize that it was far from even being OK. I advice with some friends on the forum (@Splinter189 and @Hai-Lee) who both gave me some great tips, that gave me some encouragement to keep trying. That's when I made peace with making cover parts!!! No the pieces I design don't fit perfectly off the bat but I found a way to make it less annoying, much faster and actually quite fun
. I would design a piece, print it out and cut it with scissors on the lines, then I would try it on the plane and see what I need to change. It's not a fast process but less annoying than testing with foam. Once you are happy with the pieces and how the fit on the plane you can cut them out of foam and test them.
So I got myself some covers designed dry tested with paper a few times and was ready for the real thing. I printed out the plans one more time and converted them into foam pieces. I then did a final dry test after which I molded the pieces into place and glued the pieces into place.
I wasn't sure how to place the canopy window so I started playing around with it to see how it looks. The front window needed some bevel cutting to allow it to sit better.
I still had to plane the side part of the canopy window and starting planning it out and that's when I thought of doing it as one piece. I went back to AI and started getting the window piece created, 20 mins later I had it
.
As you can see there is a gap between the canopy window and the side, so I designed a change to the fuselage piece and tested it out, and it seem to be in the right direction. There still was some changing that needed to be done and somethings that I still need to decide on. One thing that I decided to do is make the entire canopy window one piece it's already designed and was tested. It became late and after a week of not feeling well and going to work this morning I had to work, so I decided to take a break and do some tests and pictures of the work so far, enjoy.
Testing size to plan.
Pictures of the plane so far, even pulled out the wing to test with
.
Not too happy with the canopy window though, it seems to far out. In the pictures I'll looked at yesterday it seemed to be out a lot might have been mistaken. Nevermind this is V1 which will take a beating anyhow, V2 will be the real beautiful beast
. That's it for now, back to AI for more parts .
PoorManRC
Master member
I'm not just trying to swell your Head....
But your problem solving abilities are INCREDIBLE!! 😎😁
Especially the part where you decided to cut paper pieces first, which SEEMS tedious and annoying, but look at all the time and FOAM saved in the long run.
I gotta remember that tip.
But your problem solving abilities are INCREDIBLE!! 😎😁
Especially the part where you decided to cut paper pieces first, which SEEMS tedious and annoying, but look at all the time and FOAM saved in the long run.
I gotta remember that tip.
bracesport
Legendary member
mayan
Legendary member
So I kinda got stuck not liking what I have done with the nose section. Kinda feel like the canopy window is off, it’s too big compared to what it should be. I tried playing with the cowl as thought it would be a good idea. I don’t get the feel like the plane is going to look like it should and I bumps me out. I decided to drop the front section for now cause it’s giving me issues and focus on the other stuff that needs to get done; the elevator, rudder and other cover parts. I’ll start putting my attention on it tomorrow during the day. I also feel like I need to get out to the field a bit just get some more flying under my belt. I feel like that will help clear my head a bit to more awesome solutions .
.
Hai-Lee
Old and Bold RC PILOT
Just remember that you can change your design and busild as many prototypes as you desire until you get the "Look" that you are seeking.So I kinda got stuck not liking what I have done with the nose section. Kinda feel like the canopy window is off, it’s too big compared to what it should be. I tried playing with the cowl as thought it would be a good idea. I don’t get the feel like the plane is going to look like it should and I bumps me out. I decided to drop the front section for now cause it’s giving me issues and focus on the other stuff that needs to get done; the elevator, rudder and other cover parts. I’ll start putting my attention on it tomorrow during the day. I also feel like I need to get out to the field a bit just get some more flying under my belt. I feel like that will help clear my head a bit to more awesome solutions
Besides the chances are you may crash the first version a few times until you sort out the wing and control surfaces and so build the first version and look to incorporate the "Improvements" in the next build. Enduring that the wing etc works, and it flies as it should, is the first real step. Better to crash a fuselage that is not quite right than to spend hundreds of hours making it perfect and then crash it on the first flight!
Just my thoughts/opinion!
Have fun!
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