Maker foam thoughts ?

Nitrobomber

New member
I've built several ft speed kits. Some the older brown paper foam, and some white Maker foam. I'm under the impression that the older brown paper foam was better than this new stuff. EVERY maker foam kit I've received turns into a potato chip as soon as you cut the plastic wrap off, and the sheets are like half the size. It's very frustrating trying to build a straight airframe when your working with warped parts. Anyone else have any thoughts ?
 

Mr NCT

VP of SPAM killing
Moderator
I've built several ft speed kits. Some the older brown paper foam, and some white Maker foam. I'm under the impression that the older brown paper foam was better than this new stuff. EVERY maker foam kit I've received turns into a potato chip as soon as you cut the plastic wrap off, and the sheets are like half the size. It's very frustrating trying to build a straight airframe when your working with warped parts. Anyone else have any thoughts ?
I haven't had a speed build kit with the white maker board but did by a box of it. From the box the sheets were nice and flat, really wavy but flat. The paper didn't seem to stick as well as the brown or dtfb though, so considering the price + shipping I've gone back to dtfb. Granted, the dtfb needs to be coated with poly before painting, but once that's done it takes paint well and is nicely waterproofed.
 

DZFlyer

Member
I've built several ft speed kits. Some the older brown paper foam, and some white Maker foam. I'm under the impression that the older brown paper foam was better than this new stuff. EVERY maker foam kit I've received turns into a potato chip as soon as you cut the plastic wrap off, and the sheets are like half the size. It's very frustrating trying to build a straight airframe when your working with warped parts. Anyone else have any thoughts ?
I built an FT Tiny Tutor from the Maker Foam kit, and the parts were good. I suppose there might be more of a problem with waviness on larger builds, but I had no problems with my kit. The only thing is that the waviness was somewhat visible on the wing, making it look kind of as if it is a balsa build. But it's not major. I have not tried building with the brown-papered foam, only Dollar Tree Foam Board, but I can say that DTFB is flatter than the Maker Foam board.
 

Foamforce

Elite member
I have good luck with the FT foam. Some boxes aren’t perfectly straight, but not enough that I notice after the build. On the other hand, the Dollar Tree Foam Board has been kind of poor lately. I had one entire box that was very thin. The box that I’m currently working on has paper that comes off very easily. I bought three boxes of FT foam board and I’m only using DTFB for throwaway planes like battle planes or trainers for first time flyers.
 

mcmoyer

Active member
I bought a box of it a while back. I've built 3 models with it so far. The paper definitely peels away easier than the brown maker foam or DTFB. It's also easier to shape curves with it. I've enjoyed using it, but will probably go back to DTFB after this because paying $70 for 20 sheets vs $25 doesn't seem worth it.
 

clolsonus

Well-known member
I just finished putting together a tiny tutor with the newer white maker foam. My wing came out pretty warped and the aft fuselage twisted a bit relative to the main section. So I ended up with a fairly warped wing that will never come out, and the tail looks totally square from the back which is how I lined it up when the glue set, but is off by 5-or-so degrees looking from the front which is probably how I should have lined it up. I had assumed that the warps would come out when the folds got locked in, but that didn't seem to happen. Maybe because this is a smaller model? I haven't had a chance to try to fly it (maybe next weekend) and I'm sure it will trim out and fly just fine. I was pretty unimpressed with my own workmanship on this one, but wondering if some of that was just due to warps in the foam. For sure "potato chip" is a good description of how the foam came out of the shrink wrap. Outside of the warped foam, the rest of the build came out nice, and the build video was really great and I appreciated all the extra little hints and tips Josh tossed in for no extra charge.
I was going to post something here, and then found this thread. Do other people spend time trying to flatten their foam before building? I know that is possible with the dollar tree stuff, but not sure about the maker foam. The last FT kit I put together was the storch and it was the brown paper stuff at that time ... it came out nice and straight, no complaints back then. Or do people just fold and glue and call it close enough? Maybe I'm a victim of my own picky-ness?
I have a box of dollar tree foam that isn't water resistant, but I have been keeping it pressed flat so I was thinking of scratch building a new wing myself just to at least get that straight.
Anyway, not trying to sound complainy here ... the FT group is great and I've been a huge fan since forever ... just wondering if there are tricks other people use to get things more straighter than what I managed to do on this build?
Thanks!
 

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Jo's squadron

Active member
I just finished putting together a tiny tutor with the newer white maker foam. My wing came out pretty warped and the aft fuselage twisted a bit relative to the main section. So I ended up with a fairly warped wing that will never come out, and the tail looks totally square from the back which is how I lined it up when the glue set, but is off by 5-or-so degrees looking from the front which is probably how I should have lined it up. I had assumed that the warps would come out when the folds got locked in, but that didn't seem to happen. Maybe because this is a smaller model? I haven't had a chance to try to fly it (maybe next weekend) and I'm sure it will trim out and fly just fine. I was pretty unimpressed with my own workmanship on this one, but wondering if some of that was just due to warps in the foam. For sure "potato chip" is a good description of how the foam came out of the shrink wrap. Outside of the warped foam, the rest of the build came out nice, and the build video was really great and I appreciated all the extra little hints and tips Josh tossed in for no extra charge.
I was going to post something here, and then found this thread. Do other people spend time trying to flatten their foam before building? I know that is possible with the dollar tree stuff, but not sure about the maker foam. The last FT kit I put together was the storch and it was the brown paper stuff at that time ... it came out nice and straight, no complaints back then. Or do people just fold and glue and call it close enough? Maybe I'm a victim of my own picky-ness?
I have a box of dollar tree foam that isn't water resistant, but I have been keeping it pressed flat so I was thinking of scratch building a new wing myself just to at least get that straight.
Anyway, not trying to sound complainy here ... the FT group is great and I've been a huge fan since forever ... just wondering if there are tricks other people use to get things more straighter than what I managed to do on this build?
Thanks!
Very nice build!
I can't wait for the plans to come out!
how dose it fly?
 

clolsonus

Well-known member
Very nice build!
I can't wait for the plans to come out!
how dose it fly?
I'll defer to others to answer that ... but from the videos it looks like it is a nice little flyer (I've never met a FT kit that didn't fly amazing so my expectations are right up there.) I'm in northern MN so looking for a weekend day with more moderate temps and calm winds ... might be next May before that all happens simultaneously here. :)
 

Piotrsko

Master member
In the Wayback machine there were reports of ironing out the wrinkles and twists from the backside with a cool setting on a clothes iron. Unless proven true otherwise with current experimentation, wouldn't do this to a finished model.
 

clolsonus

Well-known member
So I'm just talking from a sample size of n=1 for whatever it's worth, but with the tiny tutor I also bought the shorter span wing kit with ailerons to build as well. That foam for the extra wing kit shows evidence that the paper coating has been shrunk in both X and Y directions. Some of the straight curve cutouts like for the main spar leave a curved hole in the larger foam piece where the whole sheet seems to want to pull itself towards the center ... even though the cutout piece itself is straight. So to me, I wonder if whatever they are using to make the paper laminate mostly water resistant ... wondering if they changed the formula on that or the amount they are using and it's causing the paper to shrink a bit and leading to the sheets being warped? It also seems like some or most of the shrinking happened after the laser cutting because the normal gap the laser leaves had been pulled shut in several places.
So for myself here, I had been planning to build 3 wings for the tiny tutor: (1) the stock wing with no control surfaces, (2) the aileron wing for more aerobatic performance, and (3) a polyhedral scratch built wing to make it more of a glider/floater.
The stock wing came out pretty warped at each wing tip (and in opposite directions so this thing is going to want to roll hard to the right without a lot of opposite rudder.
The sheet material for the aileron version of the wing looks even more warped than the main tutor kit itself so I may just skip that and not waste two good servos on a wing I'll never be happy with.
I'll probably go straight to scratch building my own polyhedral wing with a bit of taper and make it fly more like and old-timer glider free flight (but with 2 channel control of course.)
And again, I'm not trying to complain here [too much!] Love what FT is doing. But if they are getting some quality misses, they probably want to know about it so they can address the issue. (And it is always possible I'm being overly picky, but previous kit's I've bought from them haven't had this degree of warped material.)
 

Foamforce

Elite member
In the Wayback machine there were reports of ironing out the wrinkles and twists from the backside with a cool setting on a clothes iron. Unless proven true otherwise with current experimentation, wouldn't do this to a finished model.

I haven’t used an iron, but when I’ve had my horizontal stabilizer get warped from moisture, I was able to get it 80% back to normal by very carefully heating the convex side with a heat gun. The heat shrinks the paper, so it pulls that side in a concave direction.

Regarding building, it definitely helps to always store foam board flat, not on its side. If it has a curve, I put the convex side up and put something heavy in the middle to flatten it. Honestly I don’t think that does a whole lot though. On the wings and fuselage, and curvature comes out when your fold it. It’s only in the horizontal and vertical stabilizers where it matters, because those are single layer and therefore prone to warpage.
 

Merv

Moderator
Moderator
I agree with Foamforce
...It’s only in the horizontal and vertical stabilizers where it matters, because those are single layer and therefore prone to warpage.
On scratch build planes (not a FT kit), I use double layer the tail feathers, which makes my planes far more durable. The bonus, any warpage in the foam can be taken out by holding them flat while the glue dries. I use either plain white glue or polyurethane glue, both work equally well. I use which ever glue bottle is closer at the time.
 

Piotrsko

Master member
Afaik, the paper covering is not fully dry/cured/cold when they laminate. Shrinking is part of the rigidity, which degrades when you pull off the paper (also why you can make tight curves.)

What happens when you stress something and partially remove stresss? Warps and bumps.
 

L Edge

Master member
Another interesting thing that I noticed over time is the black Adam's board warps a lot less than the white especially for the wings. But of course, the black color in flight (F-117) against a background of trees brings the pilot heart beat rate up significantly.
 

Mr Man

Elite member
Another interesting thing that I noticed over time is the black Adam's board warps a lot less than the white especially for the wings. But of course, the black color in flight (F-117) against a background of trees brings the pilot heart beat rate up significantly.
Solution: FOCUS.

I know what you’re talking about, planes of one solid color are hard to get good orientation.
 

MZ250Ben

Member
I've been trying to come up with a practical solution for warping horizontal stabs. One thing I did was to peel off the paper and use thicker card stock on just the stab and elevator. Worked a little, but not enough to justify the effort. My next attempt will be to "box" the stab in by cutting a mirror image of it, removing the foam from half so I can fold over the paperboard to the other side and glue it, like a typical folded wing but with foam on only one side. I got some craft store foamboard that has more robust card stock than typical foamboard. I used to cross-grain layer 1/32" balsa in a press (press= big stack of books) with wood glue to create stiffer tail planes, this works great, but is time consuming and takes overnight to dry. Also considering some kind of pre-tensioning method, like counter warp it and lay tape on it while it's curved? I dunno, but I'm tired of trimming out a gentle roll every time I fly.
 

Foamforce

Elite member
I've been trying to come up with a practical solution for warping horizontal stabs. One thing I did was to peel off the paper and use thicker card stock on just the stab and elevator. Worked a little, but not enough to justify the effort. My next attempt will be to "box" the stab in by cutting a mirror image of it, removing the foam from half so I can fold over the paperboard to the other side and glue it, like a typical folded wing but with foam on only one side. I got some craft store foamboard that has more robust card stock than typical foamboard. I used to cross-grain layer 1/32" balsa in a press (press= big stack of books) with wood glue to create stiffer tail planes, this works great, but is time consuming and takes overnight to dry. Also considering some kind of pre-tensioning method, like counter warp it and lay tape on it while it's curved? I dunno, but I'm tired of trimming out a gentle roll every time I fly.

This is an area where Maker Foam shines. No warp on the horizontal stab when you use it.

Doing the skewer reinforcement helps reduce warp quite a bit, but also generates a noticeable amount of drag.

Have you tried water proofing your foam? You could try the tent spray. You could also completely cover the stabs with packing tape. In one plane I removed almost all the paper and replaced it with tape. The result was very light weight and water resistant. It has never warped.
 

AIRFORGE

Make It Fly!
Moderator
After completing a build...
Scuff as much of the paper as possible to remove the Water-Resistant material. (FT Foam Board, FT Maker Foam, FT Monster Foam. Skip this for standard non-FT Adams Readi-Board)
Wipe with a slightly damp cloth to clean.
Apply oil-based MinWax Polyurethane with a brush.
Wipe off the excess, let dry.
Paint or not.

I think it helps to harden the outer skin, reduce warping, and makes it much easier to paint. or at least it does for me. Try it on a scrap piece as a test.
NOTE: It does add a bit of weight.