Mini Scout Speed Racer! (Yep, doing it!)

[BATTLEAXE]

Had an unexpected opportunity to fly today. The MSSR V1.0 did not survive the evening.

I put a 6x4.5 on it and she got her oomph back. Boy was she hard to control, though! I think I'm going to leave the wing where it is, but put the dihedral back into it. I'm also toying with the idea of sweeping it back a bit, but the plane already loses a lot of lift on a simple turn. Maybe a foldover wing is the way to go, but I was trying to avoid the weight.

I'm currently working on my Spitfire group build, so I've some time to noodle the design. V1.0 may be RIP, but the next version is already churning the mental juices!

That was an awesome vid... you took the Mini Scout into the danger zone and lost a soldier bro. Will she live or is it time to trade up?

 

[BATTLEAXE]

@buzzbomb - that was super fast - maybe is time to build this from @FAI-F1D (simple and maybe faster)!

View attachment 140655

HMMM... that looks like a 1 sheet plane lol Have I seen this idea before...

 

[buzzbomb]

@buzzbomb - that was super fast - maybe is time to build this from @FAI-F1D (simple and maybe faster)!

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I LIKE it! I'm trying to see what the Mini Scout with an "F" size motor is capable of, though. I've downloaded the plans and this is definitely on the build list!

 

[buzzbomb]

That was an awesome vid... you took the Mini Scout into the danger zone and lost a soldier bro. Will she live or is it time to trade up?

She's ready to go, but a little worse for wear.

 

[bracesport]

@buzzbomb - FAI-F1D's design is built for speed and is such a tidy build!

 

[buzzbomb]

@buzzbomb - FAI-F1D's design is built for speed and is such a tidy build!

It looks quick. I'm surprised that he went with a high wing, though. Low wings are generally the way to go for speed. I am looking forward to building one and seeing what it can do.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

She's ready to go, but a little worse for wear.

Did you say you were goin for a swept folded wing design on it? How you gonna do that?

 

[buzzbomb]

Did you say you were goin for a swept folded wing design on it? How you gonna do that?

Copy the wing design from the FT Racer and see if I can scale it down to Mini Scout size.

https://store.flitetest.com/flite-t...electric-airplane-kit-1016mm-flt-1001/p673665

 

[BATTLEAXE]

Copy the wing design from the FT Racer and see if I can scale it down to Mini Scout size.

https://store.flitetest.com/flite-t...electric-airplane-kit-1016mm-flt-1001/p673665

HMMM, very smart guy. can't wait to see that... not much of a scout anymore though. But who can be a purist when you want speed rite

 

[buzzbomb]

HMMM, very smart guy. can't wait to see that... not much of a scout anymore though. But who can be a purist when you want speed rite

I've extended the nose and tail. Basically lengthened the fuselage. I moved the wing from the center to the bottom of the fuse and also moved it forward. I also increased the height of the vertical stab and made the rudder and elevator a bit larger. Then I added ailerons.

Building it however, it's still just a Mini Scout with some modified shapes. As soon as I add that wing we discussed, it's really only marginally a Mini Scout. That's another reason I've been reticent to do so.

The Mini Scout is such a simple build and I wanted to be able to do some crazy stuff with an easy to build plane and an inexpensive powerpack. I absolutely love my Mini Scout Biplane. The Mini Scout Speed Racer began as the MSBP without the top wing. Literally. I tore the top wing off in a crash and just threw the remains of the plane into the air to see what it could do.

I'll admit I've sort got the speed bug with this thing. It's pretty darn exhilarating when it buzzes past as fast you can turn your head. It's still just a Mini Scout with an F-pack. Slightly modified a bit.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

That's

I've extended the nose and tail. Basically lengthened the fuselage. I moved the wing from the center to the bottom of the fuse and also moved it forward. I also increased the height of the vertical stab and made the rudder and elevator a bit larger. Then I added ailerons.

Building it however, it's still just a Mini Scout with some modified shapes. As soon as I add that wing we discussed, it's really only marginally a Mini Scout. That's another reason I've been reticent to do so.

The Mini Scout is such a simple build and I wanted to be able to do some crazy stuff with an easy to build plane and an inexpensive powerpack. I absolutely love my Mini Scout Biplane. The Mini Scout Speed Racer began as the MSBP without the top wing. Literally. I tore the top wing off in a crash and just threw the remains of the plane into the air to see what it could do.

I'll admit I've sort got the speed bug with this thing. It's pretty darn exhilarating when it buzzes past as fast you can turn your head. It's still just a Mini Scout with an F-pack. Slightly modified a bit.

That's exactly how I flew all my Minis is on the F Pack, and most were modified to some extent. I keep hearing people tell me to build the original first then modify the second, but I always see ways to make things better, faster, stronger, or easier from just watching the release and build vids. Even the slow fly planes i have built all have had something done to them.

Have you tried the Mini warbirds or the wings like the Mini Arrow?

 

[buzzbomb]

That's

That's exactly how I flew all my Minis is on the F Pack, and most were modified to some extent. I keep hearing people tell me to build the original first then modify the second, but I always see ways to make things better, faster, stronger, or easier from just watching the release and build vids. Even the slow fly planes i have built all have had something done to them.

Have you tried the Mini warbirds or the wings like the Mini Arrow?

No warbirds yet, mini or otherwise. The maiden of my Spit (hopefully this evening!!!!) will be my first. I've got a love for period multi-wings, and I've only really flown them and some top-wings. The Edge is a mid-wing and I'm not comfortable with it yet. It'll be going in air after my MSBP. Can't get comfortable with it if you don't fly it!

So, high-wing, multi-wing and mid-wing.

The Mini Scout Speed Racer is the exception, and I don't fly it so well. I don't really modify the plans for the builds that I do. I just build them and try to fly them.

The MSBP and MSSR are planes that I'm developing. I'm taking a known good design and using it to create an entirely different plane. That's not really the same as modifying them the way that you do. Keep on doing what you're doing. Thus far, from the few videos that I've seen, your modifications seem to work. More importantly, they work for you!

I have never built a "wing." They just don't appeal to me. I know they fly wonderfully, but I don't think I'd get the same feeling watching it in the air as I do watching a biplane or hopefully my Spit. The wing is a thing that flies. It's just not an airplane. Same reason I stopped flying quads. They can do all kinds of fun and impressive stuff. It's just not the same as watching a biplane roll out of a climb and dive for the ground and then pull up and roll into a smooth pass. That's pretty hard to beat.

 

[BATTLEAXE]

No warbirds yet, mini or otherwise. The maiden of my Spit (hopefully this evening!!!!) will be my first. I've got a love for period multi-wings, and I've only really flown them and some top-wings. The Edge is a mid-wing and I'm not comfortable with it yet. It'll be going in air after my MSBP. Can't get comfortable with it if you don't fly it!

So, high-wing, multi-wing and mid-wing.

The Mini Scout Speed Racer is the exception, and I don't fly it so well. I don't really modify the plans for the builds that I do. I just build them and try to fly them.

The MSBP and MSSR are planes that I'm developing. I'm taking a known good design and using it to create an entirely different plane. That's not really the same as modifying them the way that you do. Keep on doing what you're doing. Thus far, from the few videos that I've seen, your modifications seem to work. More importantly, they work for you!

I have never built a "wing." They just don't appeal to me. I know they fly wonderfully, but I don't think I'd get the same feeling watching it in the air as I do watching a biplane or hopefully my Spit. The wing is a thing that flies. It's just not an airplane. Same reason I stopped flying quads. They can do all kinds of fun and impressive stuff. It's just not the same as watching a biplane roll out of a climb and dive for the ground and then pull up and roll into a smooth pass. That's pretty hard to beat.

I respect that for sure. I wasn't much of a wing guy either but it was suggested to me by one of the trusty clerks at the LHS. Not the Arrow itself but some kind of wing nonetheless. I tried it, found it to be super twitchy, far removed from smooth as I had seen in the vids. Mind you I am not the pilot that they are but for an airframe that is all lift surface and a wide speed envelope it seemed to make sense in my head. Till i flew it, or more so, it flew me lol.

Now that i have flown the Spit i wanna try the Mini warbirds to see their speed capabilities. Now that my flying has smoothed out enough to make long stable passes and turns the speed is soon to come.

I know I have heard this time and time again on how the prop you use makes a huge difference. Found that out this past weekend with my Spit. Without even realizing I have been using a 9x6 gasser prop and it was pointed out to me, put on an electric 9x6 and increased my speed and torque by at least 50%, so surprised. Have you ever had the same experience in just a prop change?

 

[buzzbomb]

I respect that for sure. I wasn't much of a wing guy either but it was suggested to me by one of the trusty clerks at the LHS. Not the Arrow itself but some kind of wing nonetheless. I tried it, found it to be super twitchy, far removed from smooth as I had seen in the vids. Mind you I am not the pilot that they are but for an airframe that is all lift surface and a wide speed envelope it seemed to make sense in my head. Till i flew it, or more so, it flew me lol.

Now that i have flown the Spit i wanna try the Mini warbirds to see their speed capabilities. Now that my flying has smoothed out enough to make long stable passes and turns the speed is soon to come.

I know I have heard this time and time again on how the prop you use makes a huge difference. Found that out this past weekend with my Spit. Without even realizing I have been using a 9x6 gasser prop and it was pointed out to me, put on an electric 9x6 and increased my speed and torque by at least 50%, so surprised. Have you ever had the same experience in just a prop change?

If you watched the above videos, you saw the difference between a 6x3 and a 6x45. It was significant. I'm still too green to give prop recommendations. I'm still just trying to figure it out, myself.

I've been mostly working with x3, x45 variants. The x3 seems to be good for basic flying around. The x45 seems to add a lot of power. The slow-fly versions I haven't really had much luck with yet, but I honestly think it's my lack of experience and I'm still just trying to figure it all out.

My biggest problem is burning out my motors. I come in hot and let them cool down. Sometimes I burn them out. I've burned out two "F" pack motors and several cheap Chinese variants. I'm running the recommended props and esc. I haven't figured out that problem, yet.

 

[FAI-F1D]

It looks quick. I'm surprised that he went with a high wing, though. Low wings are generally the way to go for speed. I am looking forward to building one and seeing what it can do.

Negative. You'll not find a single low wing in the winner's circle these days. They're a pain in the neck to launch and offer zero aerodynamic benefit. Mid wing would theoretically be better, and many racing gliders are mid wings, but on a speed plane the wing needs to be either at top or bottom to get out of the way of the massive battery pack which dictates the geometry of the entire plane. Bear in mind that the original Speed Deamon was sized for a 6s 1300 and is significantly smaller than the Scout. This speed game is all about minimizing frontal area, having a loooong tail moment arm for better control, and having a clean, big wing for solid control and a low stall speed. You also need a carbon or aluminum spar to handle the flight loads. Even a slow pullout from a 100 mph pass imposes 4-5 Gs and will fold a foam wing instantly.

The logical conclusion in the speed progression is this rascal which just achieved 165 mph on a 6s 2500 drawing 230A+ to become the world's fastest foamboard airplane:

 

[FAI-F1D]

If you watched the above videos, you saw the difference between a 6x3 and a 6x45. It was significant. I'm still too green to give prop recommendations. I'm still just trying to figure it out, myself.

I've been mostly working with x3, x45 variants. The x3 seems to be good for basic flying around. The x45 seems to add a lot of power. The slow-fly versions I haven't really had much luck with yet, but I honestly think it's my lack of experience and I'm still just trying to figure it all out.

My biggest problem is burning out my motors. I come in hot and let them cool down. Sometimes I burn them out. I've burned out two "F" pack motors and several cheap Chinese variants. I'm running the recommended props and esc. I haven't figured out that problem, yet.

APC props are king. You will not find any other brand that can catch them in this type of application. For a clean sub-30" plane, the APC 5.25x6.25 is the clear winner. For more "normal" builds, a 5x5 is probably the best choice.

FT doesn't offer many speed-friendly motors other than their 2207 Radials. If you don't have those, or lack adequate cooling, mate your APC prop to a strong motor (Turnigy 2826-2200 minimum, preferably the 2836 equivalent). Ultimate approach is a 28mm inrunner, but you need serious wing spars and good structure to handle the weight and power.

 

[buzzbomb]

Negative. You'll not find a single low wing in the winner's circle these days. They're a pain in the neck to launch and offer zero aerodynamic benefit. Mid wing would theoretically be better, and many racing gliders are mid wings, but on a speed plane the wing needs to be either at top or bottom to get out of the way of the massive battery pack which dictates the geometry of the entire plane. Bear in mind that the original Speed Deamon was sized for a 6s 1300 and is significantly smaller than the Scout. This speed game is all about minimizing frontal area, having a loooong tail moment arm for better control, and having a clean, big wing for solid control and a low stall speed. You also need a carbon or aluminum spar to handle the flight loads. Even a slow pullout from a 100 mph pass imposes 4-5 Gs and will fold a foam wing instantly.

The logical conclusion in the speed progression is this rascal which just achieved 165 mph on a 6s 2500 drawing 230A+ to become the world's fastest foamboard airplane:
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View attachment 141423

That's awesome! Thank you for the info. I am now better informed and duly impressed!

 

[FAI-F1D]

That's awesome! Thank you for the info. I am now better informed and duly impressed!

Glad to help. Hopefully it helps you spend money and time more wisely than I did at first. Tried reinventing the wheel several times before realizing there were other folks out there who've gone down this road before and I should learn from them.

 

[buzzbomb]

APC props are king. You will not find any other brand that can catch them in this type of application. For a clean sub-30" plane, the APC 5.25x6.25 is the clear winner. For more "normal" builds, a 5x5 is probably the best choice.

FT doesn't offer many speed-friendly motors other than their 2207 Radials. If you don't have those, or lack adequate cooling, mate your APC prop to a strong motor (Turnigy 2826-2200 minimum, preferably the 2836 equivalent). Ultimate approach is a 28mm inrunner, but you need serious wing spars and good structure to handle the weight and power.

I haven't had much luck with Turnigy motors. I keep burning them out. It seems like maybe I'm over-propping, but I'm running within spec.

Take my Spitfire for instance. Turnigy 2836/8 1100kv, 30amp esc with a 5amp bec and a 10x45 prop. I was running a 2200mAh 3s bat and it was down to 19% in about four minutes. Then the motor burned out while landing. Literally. It's fried and is now difficult to turn by hand.

I think my solder joints are OK. I'm just at a total loss as to why I keep burning up motors. Any deas?

 

[FAI-F1D]

I haven't had much luck with Turnigy motors. I keep burning them out. It seems like maybe I'm over-propping, but I'm running within spec.

Take my Spitfire for instance. Turnigy 2836/8 1100kv, 30amp esc with a 5amp bec and a 10x45 prop. I was running a 2200mAh 3s bat and it was down to 19% in about four minutes. Then the motor burned out while landing. Literally. It's fried and is now difficult to turn by hand.

I think my solder joints are OK. I'm just at a total loss as to why I keep burning up motors. Any deas?

If you burned through that battery in 4 minutes, you were running that throttle HARD. I ran the 2830 (950 kv I think) on an 11x8 folder back when I had a 1.5m warmliner glider, and it produced gobs of power. I think it had around 3 1/2 minutes of WOT endurance on a 3s 1300, which I never used. Usually got about 3 flying sessions per battery before recharging. Bottom line, that's definitely going to burn out the motor on a Spit because there are no cooling ducts to provide airflow across the motor. That's why we have either airscoops to suck air in and vents to let it back out, or mount the motor out in the breeze, totally exposed, for proper cooling.

Cruise at 1/3 throttle or less and your racing motors won't melt.