Scale Build-Off – Fred Reese 40" span RV-3

[jhitesma]

And back on track with more progress:



And got a shipping confirmation with tracking number from BUSA today so that should get here about the same time I'm ready for more material

Bummer about the Hitec PHugger, I've heard lots of good things about their servos - but have heard of a few DOA's. I don't have any real favorite brands, I've mostly used Futaba with my ground vehicles and first RC plane. But since learning about HK I've been using a ton of 9g servos. But I have a feeling 9g servos wouldn't be robust enough for this build...and I'm still not sure what the benfits/drawbacks of putting them in the wings vs. the center are. It would shift weight outwards which seems like a negative...but I assume the main reason for using a single servo in the original design was cost savings given how much more expensive servos were in the early 80's when this was drawn up - and because smaller servos weren't really available back then. Going with two servos will let me do flapperons and the price difference isn't that much. I see a lot of designs with two servos keeping them in the center of the plane with torque tubes to control the ailerons...but the design of this wing doesn't really lend itself well to that design. So I'm really leaning towards putting the servos in the wing - but just not sure what size to go with.

 

[jhitesma]

Well the left wing is about as far as the right wing now. Need to finish up the center section and join them all together. Table is actually clean enough to do that too so I may actually get it done this weekend...but I'm probably going to wait until my wood order comes so I can finish the TE and finish skinning them before fully assembling it and making it harder to work on.

And while Balsa USA was really quick about processing and shipping my order (I ordered Saturday and they had it out the door Monday), UPS hasn't been so quick about getting it across the country. It's not scheduled to be here until Monday But...I did have enough 1/8" to get the fuselage sides cut tonight:



Nice to be able to hold these up to the wings and start to get a real feel for the size on this build, still a bit smaller than I expected...but the tailfeathers will make it a bit longer and I didn't want to go too big. This should be "just right" for me

Great thing about my big printer...so nice being able to print out multiple copies of full size plans so I don't feel bad cutting them up and destroying them

It's my wifes birthday today so I wasn't able to get much work done, and tomorrow is the real celebration so I won't get much done then either. But I should be able to sneak in time to cut the next few plywood formers for the fuselage. But can't start gluing it up until the wood order comes in since it will have the 1/16" ply I need for the side doublers.

 

[AkimboGlueGuns]

Looking real nice. I was actually thinking of scrapping my Acro Sport build and replacing it with an Evans VP-1 build. Mostly because of build ease, but also because it looks kind of like a watered down version of the RV-4.

 

[jhitesma]

Hmm...I see the spiritual relationship to an RV-4...but physically/cosmetically...I just don't see it I do however have a spare VW motor sitting in my shed and love open cockpits.

And have a lead on a local CFI a friend just finished lessons with and another friend recommended....maybe I should just start buying lottery tickets

 

[AkimboGlueGuns]

Lol, you wouldn't need a lottery win to build a VP. Its basically just a slightly bigger version of this build. I've seen a few build for way under $10,000, and it fits (I think, but I may be wrong) into the LSA category. It also looks a lot more like an RV-4 when the closed canoopy mod is done.

 

[jhitesma]

I spent way too much time last night reading VP build logs And then diverted into builds based on half VW engines. (Those Hummel Birds really impressed me!)

My wife did not approve though. She's worried enough that I'm interested in someday building a Van's. A plywood airplane does NOT sit well with her no matter how much I try to convince her it would actually be airworthy She did like the Hummel's though....and she loves the idea of GA in general - just the expenses of getting licensed and even partial ownership in a plane freak her out fast.

Also finally found info about the one full time instructor in our area...but $5,300 for the private pilot course is a bit more than I can swing right now all in one go. I'm sure he does it on payments but even based on hourly plane rental and instructor fees I just don't think I have much of a chance of pulling it off until my daughter is out of college. Guess I need to really focus on keeping myself healthy and in shape so by then I'll still be able to pass a flight physical Still tempted to call someone I've done business with in the past who's a part time instructor to see about taking a few introductory flights.


Back on topic...I made a bit more progress today but nothing worth taking photos of just yet. Got a few plywood bulkheads cut out and the 1/4" bottom rear stringers are ready to be glued on shortly. UPS sent me a message confirming my wood will be here tomorrow so I can finish the doublers for the sides and finish skinning the wings. So tomorrow should be back on track with small daily progress updates!

(Plus one of the espresso machines went home to it's owner and the other is waiting one parts that I haven't found a source for yet...so that project won't be eating as much time this week )

 

[AkimboGlueGuns]

Good to hear you're making progress, I've heard a lot of people criticizing ply planes too, but IMO I'd rather have a wood homebuilt than a metal one. They're easier to work on and the tolerances aren't as tight.

 

[jhitesma]

Glue on the 1st stringer is drying....(It's more of a short doubler than a stringer in my mind...but the article that came with the plans call it a stringer so I'll go with it.

I don't have any problem with wooden planes, helps absorb the vibrations and built well should be plenty strong - though it is a bit trickier to build light compared to aluminum I imagine. I'm not scared of working with metal - though it is a bit more intimidating when first learning. Most aluminum is a lot easier to do everything but weld with than mild steel, chromoly or stainless and in many ways isn't that much harder to deal with than wood. But wood does still win out for easiest to work on I have to admit. I think the open cockpit freaks my wife out a bit too, but I love it. I'm still kicking myself for not calling when we had someone in town giving rides in an open cockpit biplane a few years back, drove past his sign 3 days a week and kept meaning to call and find out how much a ride was - then when I finally called the number was disconnected When my friend had his Husky (an older Christian version before Aviat bought them) the few times he took me up I loved flying with the door open enjoying the fresh air, but that's as close as I've got to an open cockpit yet.

 

[AkimboGlueGuns]

Its an unforgettable experience. My first ride was in this when I was about seven.



I also took a ride in a WWII era cub last year with the door off, that one was my first landing.

 

[jhitesma]

Man that looks like fun

Got my wood order from Balsa USA this afternoon, it look great. But...I get to find out how good their customer service is. I ordered two sheets of 1/16" ply and 1 sheet of 1/8" ply but they sent me 2 sheets of 1/8" and one sheet of 1/16" Thankfully the 1/16" I ordered was 24" long instead of 12" so I might be able to get the two fuselage doublers out of one sheet. I sure hope so...as that was the big thing holding up fuselage construction as I can't get 1/16" ply locally. Basically everything I can't get locally I ordered double what I expected to need just in case. Except the 1/16" ply since it was almost $5 a sheet. 2 sheets of it was almost double what I need but due to the size of what I need I wasn't sure if I'd actually be able to get both out of one sheet.

Well, we'll see. Once my daughter goes down to sleep I'll see if I can get the doublers cut, and I'll fire off an e-mail to BUSA to see what they offer to do to make it right.

 

[Ben Presten]

You can build a VP for a lot cheaper than a RV but no matter what you can't make a VP that flies anywhere near as good as an RV.

 

[FAI-F1D]

Save your pennies for the private license. It's worth it.

I'd recommend something like a Piper Tri-Pacer as a first aircraft. I've taught a couple people to fly in them, and they're not only great trainers, but great personal airplanes, if a bit ungainly looking. Cheaper to operate than a 172, but still has all the performance of one, burns unleaded gas happily, and a good one can be had for $15k with a lot of life still in the engine, something that's definitely impossible with a 172. The RV's are great, but my impression has been that they are a bit on the demanding side. Not the airplane you'd want to learn tailwheel in, for sure.

If you do learn tailwheel, the Piper Pacer, the predecessor of the Tri-Pacer, has all the capabilities of the Tri-Pacer with the back country capabilities of a tail dragger. Like the RV, though, it is not the airplane to learn tailwheel in. Still just as easy in the air as a Tri-Pacer, which I'm convinced is the easiest airplane to fly of anything ever built.

 

[jhitesma]

Save your pennies for the private license. It's worth it.

I keep trying Every time I think I've got enough saved up to get serious about it life just manages to toss me a major curve. And with a kid now those curves have started coming before I recover from the last one But I'm not one to give up on a dream - I just sometimes have to be infuriatingly realistic about when I can realizing those dreams.

As for a first plane...I doubt I'd ever be able to afford a production airplane myself. Fractional ownership would be the only way I could pull it off and even that is doubtful. I wouldn't want to have a homebuilt as my first though - I know that much. But I would love to build one eventually.

 

[AkimboGlueGuns]

You can build a VP for a lot cheaper than a RV but no matter what you can't make a VP that flies anywhere near as good as an RV.

That is a very opinionated stance on it. VP's are very cub like airplanes, not speed machines like the RV series.

 

[abieex]

You could spend a whole day surfing the net on planes powered by VW and Corvair as well. Some of these are very fast and power extremely greasy airplanes. Many homebuilts fly as well and many better than RV's. Some of those are wood!

 

[AkimboGlueGuns]

When home building, my motto is usually wood is good. Wood is a spectacular material for modifications AND cheap building. Most times wood airplanes also end up lighter that metal. I'm not saying metal is bad, but wood certainly has it's advantages.

 

[abieex]

The first plane I owned was a Schleicher Ka-6cr 15m sailplane. Made in Germany and all wood, it flew like a bird and drew attention wherever we took it. Later, when the power bug bit it was on to a TriPacer, another lovely airplane with few bad habits. My last plane was a 15m HP18 experimental sailplane. I still love sailplanes but the cost just made it prohibitive. I enjoy having my license but RC is cool too!

 

[jhitesma]

Not to derail the wonderful discussion of first and homebuilt aircraft (which I'm very much enjoying) but back to my build....

Good thing I didn't have a chance to contact BUSA yet...I thought something else seemed odd about my order...and upon second inspection sure enough I'm missing a piece of 3/32" ply as well. And since I only ordered one that means I have none. Thankfully that won't hold me back too much - it's just a tiny piece I need as a spacer where the tail wheel mounts, and I haven't tracked down the brass I need for the tail wheel yet anyway. And if worse came to worse I could just take some 1/8" and sand it down to 3/32" since it's sandwiched between two pieces of 1/16" looks don't really matter. Still, that's quite a mixup on my ply order so I'm definitely going to be calling or e-mailing.

I was about to let it slide because I was able to cut both doublers out of the 1/16" ply but realized the wing joiners are supposed to be 1/16" not 1/8" so I have to recut them and I don't think I have enough material left for that without the second sheet I ordered. Ugh.

Last night I was able to get one of the doublers cut out but it took me about 8 razor blades and took forever. So at lunch today I fired up my bandsaw with a nice thin 1/8" blade and was able to cut most of the second one much easier. But then just before I started the last cut (and the one I was most looking forward to the bandsaw on since it was the curved one where the wings mount up against...the blade snapped on me

My bandsaw is an old Delta from the 50's. It's built way better than most modern consumer and even prosumer level woodworking tools...but it uses a really odd sized blade that isn't made anymore. So I can't just run to the store and buy a new blade. I have to buy a slightly oversized blade, then cut it down and use silver solder to braze it back together. Except....I had a nice mapp/oxy torch I used to use to do that and the regulator got stuck on an oxy tank and my friend trashed it trying to get it off. Can't pick up just a new regulator and haven't wanted to spend the money on a whole new torch setup (Not to mention real mapp gass isn't made anymore but that's a whole different discussion.) And I lost my last bit of silver solder and my last bit of flux dried up Double ugh. So my bandsaw is down for the count. I ordered more solder and flux today but don't know if my propane torch will do a good enough job. And won't be getting a new mapp/oxy setup anytime soon because....

The car decided to act up. The A/C clutch has been making noise for a few weeks and I bought a new one but the car is a GM and their A/C clutches need a special tool to remove. My friends neighbor is a mechanic and has the tool and offered to do the job for me real cheap so I was planning on letting him do it. We're scheduled to do it Sunday morning. But last night my wife called as she was about to take her lunch break saying the car wouldn't start. Went and rescued her - figured it was a dead battery. Battery was kind of low so that made sense. Thankfully she had today off so I let her ferry me to and from work and have the truck all day. After I got off we took the freshly charged battery up, threw it in the car, and it still wouldn't start Arrrgh! Then suddenly it did! Woo Hoo! Went to close the hood and drive it home...and I suddenly noticed it no longer had a serpentine belt. So apparently the reason it wasn't starting was the A/C clutch had seized and the reason it finally did start was the belt snapped. Great. So we're down to one vehicle until I can get my friend to help me with that clutch..and now we apparently get to do it in the parking lot at my wifes office, super fun.

Oh well, at least after I picked up a new belt and grabbed the new battery from the car so I could top it up before we go back. I had tried to drive the car home without the belt since it was just 2 miles from home, but the new battery didn't have a good enough charge and I only made it to the entrance of the parking lot before running out of juice so I had to bring it home to give it a full charge. Anyway - at least after that I was able to swing by Michaels and they had plenty of 1/4" balsa (since I totally forgot to order 1/4" for some reason) so I'll get to cut the nose doublers tonight. And I'll either suffer with the razors or try my coping saw to finish that last cut on the other doubler. So I may get to finish gluing up the doublers on these fuse sides tonight which would let me glue up the first bulkheads tomorrow night and have this thing starting to look kind of like a fuselage by Friday. Not holding my breath the way things have gone so far today though!

Photos later. After dinner and a stiff drink. If I get to them

 

[jhitesma]

Ok, so I promised photos and didn't deliver. Sorry. Been a crazy busy week with just on car, and I have to admit Facebook is partly at fault here. I have a couple of nice DSLR's and some decent P&S cameras - but I do most of my updates off my Samsung S4 because it's so freaking easy with facebooks photo syncing. (I also have them syncing to dropbox but they don't resize and FT won't accept full size images, and I have them syncing to G+ but they sometimes give me resizes that are too big for FT as well.) But for almost two weeks FB has been telling me photos are syncing...but they never show up in my synced photos album. So I've had to use G+ and sometime even fire up photoshop and manually resize things which is just more effort than I can muster in the evening

Well, today all my missing photos finally showed up on FB. So no more excuses let's catch up!

The wood order I've been waiting on...well...kind of:


That's a little too close for comfort there.


Ahh, but this way leaves bigger unused bits of wood and has no tight clearances!


I think I used more razor blades cutting out these doublers than I did cutting out the rest of the plane so far. This ply just eats them up!


This is the 10" bandsaw I was given free in Sept of 2011 by a friend. He got it free from another friend but found it didn't cut metal as well as he was hoping so he just left it sitting on the side of his house for a few years before finding out I was looking for one:


One week later I had it mostly restored after a complete tear down. The new urethane tires took a few more days to arrive, and to be honest I'm still trying to get the blade guides to play nice, one of the bearing guides needs to be replaced still and since the top guides were missing I just made some out of hardwood that have held up better than I expected. Biggest problem with it is the tension spring is in bad shape so to get a blade fully tensioned I end up fully compressing the spring and it runs with no "suspension" which is why I keep snapping blades. Have some new solder and flux on order though since I'll need this going to cut the 1/4" ply that's used for the firewall, wing mount and landing gear mount.


Note - the saw doesn't still look that nice. I use the heck out of it and my "shop" is my backyard. It has shade from the shade structure over my outside kitchen - but basically lives outside. Once a year I clean the surface rust off the table but otherwise it's held up great living outside and being used regularly for almost 4 years.

And with the 1/4" balsa I picked up Tuesday I was able to finish cutting all of the doublers!


I cut them all just a hair oversized so I didn't have to be too careful in gluing them on. Once they're dry I'll go back and give them a final sanding to match the sides.


Last night the first one got it's glue. Couple of bricks and a box of tools should be enough weight.


And today it looks good! I was a little concerned because the ply was slightly warped and gluing that big of a surface I was afraid things may warp even more. So I left it under the weights almost a full 24 hours. As is usually the case with lamination the sum is greater than it's parts as it's now much stiffer and perfectly flat!



Just glued up the nose of the second side. Will give it an hour or two to set then will glue the big doubler. The first side I used the plans to line up where the doublers need to go and used a bit of the 1/4" ply the firewall will be made of to make sure the gap between them is just right - that was the one edge I really wanted perfect as I can't sand it to finish and I wanted the firewall to fit tight for extra support. So the second side instead of trusting the marks I made from the plans I lined the side up against the first one and matched the doubler position up off of that so the two sides are identical. So far so good. Hopefully tomorrow I'll be able to add the first bulkheads and this will start to actually look like a fuselage!

 

[jhitesma]

Tentative thumbs up to Balsa USA. Just got off the phone and they apologized both for mixing up the order and for not being able to get the replacement wood on the truck today So replacements should be on their way Monday. Won't hold me up too much - just won't be able to finish the rear of the fuselage until I get that 3/32" ply. But I'm not in a race here...yet

The solder and flux for my bandsaw blades came today and I was able to quickly repair my blade so I'm ready to cut again too. May go ahead and cut out the 1/4" ply parts this evening.