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Sci-Fi Cylinder Pusher - Should I Attempt Such an Undertaking?

#1
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Anyone think that building something like this would even fly. I'm new to the hobby, but I always say go big or go home.

I'm sure alignment of the front spars with the little wings would be key. Anyone have other thoughts, suggestions, warnings?

It's basically a pusher. I'd plan to put the electronics mid-body right behind the motor. Maybe move them forward if the front wing spars provide more lift than you'd think. What should the profile of the cylinder be? Should it be consistent all the way around or be more airfoil-like at the top? Landing gear will be an entirely different issue... might I be able to bring it vertical and just let off the throttle and let it rest on the rear structure?

It basically reminds me of the straw plane with a circle of paper - or the massive one that Peter put together a while back.

Then comes the options for hardware. I have 850-900 mAh 3S Lipos or 2200mAh 3S Lipos. 20, 30 or 40A ESC's, Motors: 2200Kv, or 960-1020 or 1380.

I would probably do some testing on a smaller scale with the 2200kv on the 20A or 30A ESCs with a 5x5 or 6x4 or 6x3 prop.

It's mostly going to be DTF (Dollar Tree Foam) because it's cheap. I have all my $$$ locked up in motors and ESCs ;)

I'd love to hear what you all have to say while I begin to ponder the build.
 
#3
Thanks, that was pretty neat. Looks like he's going for the mono-copter feel though, unless he's planning on adding wings and a fuselage later. I'll definitely keep tabs on him though. I would plan to build the duct out of reinforced DTF and put something big in there like a 6" 3-blade prop on a 2200kv. I'll probably need some sort of gyro if I plan on LANDING on the tail huh?
 
#6
Muahahahahahah! LOVE IT. I'll start doing some drawings soon, then probably mock it up in 3D using Blender. At least then if I never build it I can make some fake flight videos of it.
 
#9
Hey RC! Welcome back from your break?!? Getting back into the hobby? Anyway, you sure know how to put a challenge out there. I'm finishing up the Storch so I have something to fly when I'm not concocting new things. Then I'll start slapping motors, frames and servos together so I can get a good base structure going to expand upon.
 
#11
Yes, U Can Do It.....

Take a look at some of the early golden age airplanes, the strange ones like the Barrel plane from when man first learned or developed flying machines and we were still searching for the right shape. It flew. You balance this right, it will probably fly too, and it might be cheaper and easier to make it prop drive too. Like using a 1400kv motor and an 8x6 prop behind the barrel. Thinking of your Barrel as the wing, CG might be 1/3 back of the leading edge of the barrel. Fat wings/airfoils keep the plane from stalling, look at 3D planes with symmetrical wings .... NACA 16 or 14 is used on the Sig Somethin Extra. Might help with this idea in mind the not just make the barrel like a tin can with flat sides, but hey, try that first like we model planes by putting together a barrel out of cardboard --- the airframe --- as a freeflight plane for test. See if you can balance it and fly it. I'm really thinking it will fly OK except for the problem of excessive roll, maybe that could be solved with a stabilizer circuit or gyro circuit to control the roll? Tape some coins on that crude cardboard tester, balance it and see if it will fly or glide a little. If you can balance and throw it even 20 feet, then it might be a good and cool flyer with a gyro

I like your leaning toward sci fi aircraft.

Haven't done it yet, but when I started watching Battle Star Galactica 10yrs ago, I was thinking of building that Cylon Battle Cruiser, Andromeda and its Slip Fighter, Stargate the movie the flying wing egyptian enemy had and from SG1 that little gray alien Thor with his Asgard Mothership the Oneil, the alien guy who always helps SG1 out of jams.... this is a canard aircraft with really tall vert stabs in the rear half moon shaped and fwd swept instead of aft. Another version of this is the Daniel Jackson. Cylon Raider   Kg_cg_ns_advanced-raider-002.jpg Andromeda_ascendant.jpg Andromeda  34w5tr43w.jpg Andromeda Slipfighter 50-3st306f.jpe Thors Asgard mother Oneil.jpg

What would really make the Asgard Oneil work good is to strengthen the vert stabs and put those tall skinny wheels inside the bottom boot of the stab with only 1/3 to 1/2 of the wheel visible.

I'm sure warming to finally building a DTFB version of the Oneil driven in rear by a 1400kv motor and apc 9x6.

ONeill-2.jpg~original   Asgard O'Neill (mdcobbin's model modified by me to 2904 polys).jpg Asgard Jackson-class Mothership.jpg

The Asgard ship Oneil looks very possible for a flyer! A very cool sci-fi craft as pusher with canards.

Might use this motor on back of your Barrel Craft

Suppo 2814--6--1400kv Park480  for $23 -- 2.jpg
 
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#13
Hi Smith!

One thing I found since flying electric at parks is I don't like my planes so noisy, so, although buying 4 prop jet 2200kv motors to spin 6x6 props, I am now trying to use quieter stuff like apc8x4e or apc8x6e or gws 9x5 dd, these are not as noisy. The more noise you make, the more attention you get ( annoyed people complain... ) I like mine quieter anyway.

I built a stryker and flew it with a slower open style motor swinging a 7x6 and then and 8" prop, it windmilled but it was quiet, maybe I just did not know how to set the break. Strykers are just not that interesting anymore, or maybe it's because I don't have that field on the hill in front of Home Depot anymore, they put a Tire auto business on that grassy lot in front. That was fun to fly with the stryker.

The 4 propjet 2200kv motors I bought are those they Horizon Hobbies made for their last version of the stryker, it was also a 480 motor made to spin their 6x6 prop. Haven't used them yet, saving them for like an F4 DTFB project like is in RCGroups.

Can't tell how big you mean should you scale up unless I just missed mention of size... to spin a 12x6 huh?
Well depends on what you want.
I just started a Savage Bobber that uses a Cobra 2826/10turn/1170kv to spin APC 10x6e on 3s giving 57.5oz thrust for 351watts that's 3.5# of thrust. I want to 3D this plane so I hope to keep my weight to 2-2.5# if I like to hover.

Simply tho, you might pick a size of plane and what material you want to build it out of... let that determine what power system you need.
OR
Use or buy a power system you want to use and see what thrust it gives you with what prop n battery combo, then if 3D you must build some fat margin less than the thrust you can get, if warbird or scale maybe you don't care to have more than 1:1 thrust... less thrust than weight.... you decide tho


I have a lot of smaller motors like the BEEF 2217/7/1250kv and now kind of regret buying all that small stuff, if you go bigger like this Cobra 2820 ( stator size ) 142grams, you can build and know you have 57oz of thrust or that if 3D is something you want, then that would raise your weight limit.

Have you seen these 1400mm 55 inch warbirds on Nitromodels and the motors and batts they use and the specs of these planes.... 600 to 900kv motors spinning big 12 to 14 inch props using 4s batts and that the lower kv motors get better efficiency too. Nerdnic recommended a Tacon Bigfoot 10 he uses with an APC 10x10 prop and 4s batts.
OK, guess I'm saying it's a good idea to get more power so it's not so hard building so awful light, it's challenging sometimes...too much so.

Just an idea, something I do often, look at those warbirds, do screencaps of the specs and consider the power systems and the weights of the planes also in buying motors, the Io no load current at typ 10volts. These things give you ideas, but remember unless you are building out of foam, might want to go for more power. I'll post some ( motor spec pages too with prop tests ) here. I make some of these spec sheets just the right size for 8.5x11 print and I try to save on the ink eliminate the junk in background and usu print BW.
Also here's Colanis' Energy Saving Race Glider. colaniplane1og  enlarged 2.jpg
NitroPlanes -- Airfield 6ch A6M Zero 1450mm57.09 inch RTF sale $259 reg $658 --  Description 3.jpg FMS 4250--850kv motor for Nitroplanes 45 to 57inch warbirds.jpg airfield-6ch-p51-mustang-1100mm45.25inch RTF $159-- description 3.jpg WRX w prop limits.jpg Cobra 2820--10t-1170kv descr upload.jpg



If you had/have any interest in the FT Bushwacker, see my similar project the methods, pattern xfer, other stuff here:

http://forum.flitetest.com/showthre...%96-TH-Crack-Turbo-Beaver&p=232554#post232554


Sci fi aircraft are really interesting for RC, I posted the ones I want to build. I like pushers with canards and the more efficient prop drive instead of EDF, and I think the first one among these I want to build might be one of the Asgard craft from SG1.
 
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#14
Sci Fi Cylinder Pusher with Canards and fat NACA 16 or 18 symmetrical foil

Have you ever played with an RC Sim like Realflight where you can take a plane in the program and change the wing airfoil or size or other attributes?

I found out a lot of good stuff by playing with Realflight generation 3, and I like it better than ver 7 that I now also have.
Put artwork on wings, pictures, made custom flight sites and customized airplanes ( Lots of experimentation ).

When I took a funfly plane that may have had a symmetrical 14 % naca and increased to naca 20 it made it really grab the air, I could not stall it at hi speeds or low speeds.

The 20 in NACA 20 means that the chord is 20% thickness of the length of the chord about 1/3 behind the Leading Edge of the wing where you would put your wing spar.

At the other extreme, reduce to a flat or naca 9% ( kinda thin ), put it into a hi spd dive, it tip stalls, flips over and crashes.
Now slow way down to produce a slo spd stall, yes, it stalls a lot easier and earlier than if it had the fat airfoil.


A fat airfoil like the NACA 16 or 18 or 20 will make the cylinder grab the air and it will go where you want to put it in the air if you balance it right. If you are really in doubt about success and investing time and work into this only to see it fail, well, to be certain it won't, download Profili and make a cylinder with a NACA 20 symmetrical airfoil.


Profili link below, been using this for years, it's the bomb for generating airfoils!


http://www.profili2.com/eng/default.asp


If anything at all will make this fly, the NACA 20 airfoil will.

And making the horz stabs functional like ailerons at the rear to control that bad rolling problem you'll have along with a GYRO, right?

Also, I think if all stabs and control surfaces are fat foils instead of just flats, this should give more control and help make this fly good ( maybe NACA 14? ).

Put a motor in back and a prop outside the cylinder or inside if you like, this could be a sort of ducted fan but NOT really, just a motor with a big prop in a cylinder that is much bigger than an EDF for this size/proportion aircraft.

You get more thrust and better response from prop drive than EDF, prop drive is much preferred.

Sci Fi Cylinder fm SmithHayward mod -- 4.jpg
Lifting foil on top, Weight on Bottom -- 1.jpg

You know how you get the inherent stability with a hi wing aircraft like a cub or ft bushwacker, the wing above is a lifting airfoil and it produces Bernouli lift and then you have the weight of gear set as low as possible, like where the battery is in the bushwacker and a cub or ft storch.

A very similar Inherent Stability just like with the hi wing aircraft has, might be achieved by putting fat high lift airfoils like a Clark YM 15 in the top of the Cylinder from 10 to 2 O'clock positions and then using the NACA 18 or 20 symmetrical on the bottom from 2 to 10. This alone might go a long way to make it just want to fly upright because the Clark Y foil would be pulling it up and the weighty battery and all other components positioned as low as possible.

I just got carried away, your idea looks like fun and aeronautical oddities are great, especially if you can make them fly good!


Leonard


"Push the Button, Max"
 
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#15
What is the name of this aircraft, where did it come from??????

I want to find more views of this aircraft, having the name and what or where it came from like if it is from a video game or like an artists pic like from luft46, you know,

having the name would help to get other better views, Smith or anybody??????

Ans: didn't think it would be so easy to find.

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Generally the Aerodyne R02 annular wing and many variations of this sci-fi, 3d, fantasy aircraft, fictional aircraft, by Cutangus the artist aka Jose Garcia posted @ flickr.com

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Aerodyne R02 in 50s USAF by Cutangus aka Jose Garcia at flickr.com

Aerodyne R02 in 50s USAF by Cutangus aka Jose Garcia -- 1.jpg

another scheme

Aerodyne LUFTWAFFE INTERCEPTOR PATROL (I) annular wing by Cutangus aka Jose Garcia -- 6.jpg

side view of same

Aerodyne IMPROVED R02 (German Luftwaffe) annular wing by Cutangus aka Jose Garcia -- 5.jpg

cool variation here:

Aerodyne ORIGINAL MODEL R02-A  (Jap) annular wing by Cutangus aka Jose Garcia -- 4.jpg


I like this variation, what do you think?

Aerodyne R02 US NAVY 1944 ver scifi aircraft ww2_digital_art 7.jpg Aerodyne R02 US NAVY 1944 ver scifi aircraft ww2_digital_art 6.jpg


annular wing 3 view, artist and site


"...wait till you see what I did to car number 8, professa..."
 
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#16
Wow! I love how intense this just got! Once I get my FT Versa into the air I will start prototyping this one.

This was a lot to digest so let me formulate a worthy response tomorrow!

Welcome to my world Professor! Wanna go for a ride?

Maybe I should set up an online project thing to detail the build better than a forum post can. Would you be interested in participating?
 

HawkMan

Senior Member
#17
It MIGHT work, if you mess witht he scale a bit, make the ring wing a bit bigger than the scale says and make sure it's a proper ring/cylinder wing. and you'll probably want to use a prop instead of a edf.
 

HawkMan

Senior Member
#18
The planes themselves seem to be fan concepts of this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dornier_Aerodyne

The Dornier Aerodyne was the designation of an unmanned "wingless" VTOL aircraft. Conceived by Alexander Lippisch, it was developed and built by Dornier on behalf of the Federal German Ministry of Defense. Lippisch was part of the team. The first flight took place on 18 September 1972. The development ended on 30 November 1972 after successful hovering-flight testing with the aircraft. Experimentation did not continue due to lack of interest in the Bundeswehr (German Armed Forces), and/or the desire to undertake plans for manned helicopters.
 
#19
Well sure like to participate, I got more and more interested in figuring out how to make this fly, just a process ....

Hey maybe it's like the blob, it gets your foot and then it's got all of you!

It's just a result of being a technician, you never stop trying to either fix things, or, figure out how they work so you can fix or improve them.

I think of the critical concepts that might make it work or what it would suffer from, like here, the really low aspect ratio, like a flying pickle, there's nothing that extends outward, but the challenge, and the idea that hi lift foils could be at the top of the cylinder and symmetrical naca 18s at the bottom to still grab the air and the weight at the bottom... Pull up from the top and gravity pulls your battery and gear from the bottom... may have some effect to right the craft, but how much, how effective? We'll see. Oh then there's the gyro too.


Have you seen the aviation pioneers or aeronautical oddities video on youtube and other places, you know it's easy to find maybe in more place than one.

Shows the thing with 16 little wings, the guy with wings on his shoulders jumps off the hill, the jumping helicopter looks like an umbrella reciprocating up and down, and... and .... the barrel plane, it flies too.

Wonder how those other sci-fi aircraft grabbed you? Colani race glider, Oniel Asgard ship, Andromeda ship?

Or have you seen my Savage Bobber build log, this should be a fun 3D Bush plane.

http://forum.flitetest.com/showthre...t-%96-FT-Bushwacker-%96-TH-Crack-Turbo-Beaver

Leonard
 
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