Help! Smoke Generator(Powder) for RC electric planes
- Thread starter cdfigueredo
- Start date
nevenelestate
No Agenda FPV
If I attempt to print all the pieces at once it is showing just over 2 days of print time on my Ender 3. This is with 1.2mm wall thickness and 0.2mm layer height, there isn't a lot of infill since most parts are hollow.
The one issue is that the PilonB STL has an issue with it that is causing Cura to see a solid layer right where the three areas are for the outlet piece's tabs to attach too. See below that it is showing a yellow top/bottom layer. This is part of the long print time because Cura is factoring in the support under that whole layer area. The green arrow is pointing to the issue. Once that is fixed it should drop several hours from the print time.
I'm also curious, what size servo did you use? and is this 150% scaled version still using the old servo mount size, or did you scale that up also? I think using something like the MG90S as a base, since they are cheap and widely available, would be good, then maybe have a few other versions of the pilon_.stl files for different servo sizes.
https://www.electronicoscaldas.com/datasheet/MG90S_Tower-Pro.pdf
The one issue is that the PilonB STL has an issue with it that is causing Cura to see a solid layer right where the three areas are for the outlet piece's tabs to attach too. See below that it is showing a yellow top/bottom layer. This is part of the long print time because Cura is factoring in the support under that whole layer area. The green arrow is pointing to the issue. Once that is fixed it should drop several hours from the print time.
I'm also curious, what size servo did you use? and is this 150% scaled version still using the old servo mount size, or did you scale that up also? I think using something like the MG90S as a base, since they are cheap and widely available, would be good, then maybe have a few other versions of the pilon_.stl files for different servo sizes.
https://www.electronicoscaldas.com/datasheet/MG90S_Tower-Pro.pdf
nevenelestate
No Agenda FPV
Using 0.28mm layer height got it down to 1 day 8 hours, but that is also without the supports under the problem area. With those supports it's still 1 Day 13 hours. So guessing that once that piece is fixed it should drop 5-6 hours from the 0.2layer height one.
I also wouldn't print all the pieces at once, too much risk of failure for me. Hate it when a long print fails like 18hours in haha
I also wouldn't print all the pieces at once, too much risk of failure for me. Hate it when a long print fails like 18hours in haha
cdfigueredo
Elite member
Hey, not sure why are u getting this isse there. My father (who does not lives in Cuba) accepted to print one for me and used PrusaSlicer with no isses. He used 0.2mm layer height as u and 10% infill with an expected time of 20 h 46 min using supports.
And yes, the system is designed for a MG90S servo, and the 150% version keeps the old servo mount size. But i like the idea of desing it for other servo sizes. Also someone told me about make a version without servo, just a hole for a flexible pushroad.
nevenelestate
No Agenda FPV
That would certainly make the whole thing a little more rigid.
cdfigueredo
Elite member
indeed
cdfigueredo
Elite member
More progress on my father printed one. It is ready to be tested, i wish my father had an RC plane hahaha.
cdfigueredo
Elite member
I was thinking that a good idea to do some bench testing with the system is to use a hair dryer to generate incoming air flow. By using the lowest speed of the punch and adjusting the distance from the punch to the generator we should be able to emulate the performance on an RC model.
If u don;t belive me here is the proof
If u don;t belive me here is the proof
It looks like you're using a regular 3D modeling software to design this based on the mesh in your earlier pictures.
If you use a CAD program like Fusion 360 (which you can get free on a year by year basis by signing up as a hobby maker, or teacher/student if that applies). Then you can redesign a lot more easy, and if you do all the shapes parametric you can change individual size of the model easily by changing parameters a and havign others linked to the one you changed.
cdfigueredo
Elite member
You are right, I am using 3d Max for modeling, I know it is not for this kind of projects but I have no time or internet enough to learn other software. Also this is just a prototype, please feel free to take my idea as an starting point to create something better.
Digital Sandwich
New member
There's some weird geometry where the clip intersects the outside of the cylinder. You can repair the mesh with Microsoft 3D Builder. Open the STL and click Import Model. You'll see an error with the option to repair the object. After repairing, Cura slices it correctly.
cdfigueredo
Elite member
The way in which the center piece that opens and closes the mechanism is designed makes it easier for the incoming air to be driven against the walls of the container so that the powder is always in motion. This and the vibrations and turns of the aircraft should be enough to prevent the system from clogging.
Digital Sandwich
New member
I tried this out yesterday. With just the outer cylinder pieces and none of the internals, it worked great. So well, in fact, that several club members who didn't know what I was doing thought it was real smoke! And it made the field smell nice.
Here are some improvements I can suggest:
Here are some improvements I can suggest:
- The propeller / agitator thingy is overly complicated and doesn't print well. I snapped the end off mine while trying to remove the supports. I just used the outer shell, and that worked really well.
- The pylon sticking out the top where the piece attaches to the plane is too long. Even on my 1400 mm bush plane, the unit would drag on the ground if I used it. If the piece sat flat up against the bottom of the plane instead of hanging from a pylon, it would fit better. Maybe if the cross section was a square or trapezoid instead of a circle?
- Move the inlet and outlet up near the top of the unit (near the bottom of the fuselage) instead of centered down the axis of the body so powder doesn't spill out when the plane is sitting level and not moving.
First off, Awesome job with this design @cdfigueredo.
It's a fantastic concept, and I cant wait to put it on a plain.
That being said, I agree with Sandwich, I'v also noticed a few areas that could be improved.
So, I hope no one minds, I took it upon myself to alter a few of the parts and make those changes.
1. Separated the Turbine and the Shaft into 2 pieces, and keyed them for alignment.
This way they can both print either with minimal or without any supports, depending on how well your printer is tuned.
Turbine should be printed flat as shown, the shaft can go in either orientation.
2. Repaired the Pylon_b file, as it was unprintable. The non-manifold error @nevenelestate pointed out also prevented me from printing this part. I fixed it using "MS STL Repair Tool" hence the .3MF file. (https://tools3d.azurewebsites.net, I had to use the online version since I'm on Mac).
3. And, altho it wasn't necessary, I also redid the Handler. Made it a bit shorter and redid the hole size (to 2mm) to fit my push rods better, without having to drill it out. I also changed the key-hole size a bit so its more of a press fit onto the turbine, just so the glue doesn't have to do as much work.
And for us with some smaller planes it would be great to see a more slim-line version with shorter Pylon. This design is a bit too big for most of my planes. (all my planes are belly landers too, no gear. So I will have to mount it on top of the plane, not on the belly).
Maybe mounting the servo sideways could help? The Pylon would end up wider at the base, but it would give the opportunity to have it closer to the fuselage (or wing or wherever).
Oooooor, an other way to make it lower profile could be to maybe make a dual barrel version, same overall volume, just shorter and wider with 2 inlets/outlets. Could still both be operated with the just one servo too.. (something that looks kinda like this: https://www.freeimageslive.co.uk/files/images005/twin_jet_engine.preview.jpg)
Otherwise, super nice design!
As a side note, I would personally love to have 2 screw holes for the Servo too, that would be really nice.
It's a fantastic concept, and I cant wait to put it on a plain.
That being said, I agree with Sandwich, I'v also noticed a few areas that could be improved.
So, I hope no one minds, I took it upon myself to alter a few of the parts and make those changes.
1. Separated the Turbine and the Shaft into 2 pieces, and keyed them for alignment.
This way they can both print either with minimal or without any supports, depending on how well your printer is tuned.
Turbine should be printed flat as shown, the shaft can go in either orientation.
2. Repaired the Pylon_b file, as it was unprintable. The non-manifold error @nevenelestate pointed out also prevented me from printing this part. I fixed it using "MS STL Repair Tool" hence the .3MF file. (https://tools3d.azurewebsites.net, I had to use the online version since I'm on Mac).
3. And, altho it wasn't necessary, I also redid the Handler. Made it a bit shorter and redid the hole size (to 2mm) to fit my push rods better, without having to drill it out. I also changed the key-hole size a bit so its more of a press fit onto the turbine, just so the glue doesn't have to do as much work.
And for us with some smaller planes it would be great to see a more slim-line version with shorter Pylon. This design is a bit too big for most of my planes. (all my planes are belly landers too, no gear. So I will have to mount it on top of the plane, not on the belly).
Maybe mounting the servo sideways could help? The Pylon would end up wider at the base, but it would give the opportunity to have it closer to the fuselage (or wing or wherever).
Oooooor, an other way to make it lower profile could be to maybe make a dual barrel version, same overall volume, just shorter and wider with 2 inlets/outlets. Could still both be operated with the just one servo too.. (something that looks kinda like this: https://www.freeimageslive.co.uk/files/images005/twin_jet_engine.preview.jpg)
Otherwise, super nice design!
As a side note, I would personally love to have 2 screw holes for the Servo too, that would be really nice.
Attachments
cdfigueredo
Elite member
AlLarabie thank you very much for your input and thanks for the mods!!!! that's the spriit of this project.First off, Awesome job with this design @cdfigueredo.
It's a fantastic concept, and I cant wait to put it on a plain.
That being said, I agree with Sandwich, I'v also noticed a few areas that could be improved.
So, I hope no one minds, I took it upon myself to alter a few of the parts and make those changes.
1. Separated the Turbine and the Shaft into 2 pieces, and keyed them for alignment.
This way they can both print either with minimal or without any supports, depending on how well your printer is tuned.
Turbine should be printed flat as shown, the shaft can go in either orientation.
2. Repaired the Pylon_b file, as it was unprintable. The non-manifold error @nevenelestate pointed out also prevented me from printing this part. I fixed it using "MS STL Repair Tool" hence the .3MF file. (https://tools3d.azurewebsites.net, I had to use the online version since I'm on Mac).
3. And, altho it wasn't necessary, I also redid the Handler. Made it a bit shorter and redid the hole size (to 2mm) to fit my push rods better, without having to drill it out. I also changed the key-hole size a bit so its more of a press fit onto the turbine, just so the glue doesn't have to do as much work.
And for us with some smaller planes it would be great to see a more slim-line version with shorter Pylon. This design is a bit too big for most of my planes. (all my planes are belly landers too, no gear. So I will have to mount it on top of the plane, not on the belly).
Maybe mounting the servo sideways could help? The Pylon would end up wider at the base, but it would give the opportunity to have it closer to the fuselage (or wing or wherever).
Oooooor, an other way to make it lower profile could be to maybe make a dual barrel version, same overall volume, just shorter and wider with 2 inlets/outlets. Could still both be operated with the just one servo too.. (something that looks kinda like this: https://www.freeimageslive.co.uk/files/images005/twin_jet_engine.preview.jpg)
Otherwise, super nice design!
As a side note, I would personally love to have 2 screw holes for the Servo too, that would be really nice.
sadly i don't have a 3D printer to test it so i have to delegate this on u. But I love to see how the community is reviewing the project and making suggestions and changes. All the ideas you mention sound great, but I've been on hold a bit because I haven't seen the first video of someone successfully testing it on a model yet
. I think that's what's missing to give it a little push.I drafted up a preliminary idea for the Twin Jet design.
Still super early-days on the design, nothing functional yet, but the look it really cool so far.
Imagine 2 of these, one under each wing.. Awww, that would look awesome!!..
I recessed the servo into the body cavity/pylon, this helps keep the low profile but reduces internal volume.
Anyway, Im most likely going to scrap this whole design and start again.
I just threw random measurements at it, and have no clue how big this'll be IRL.. lol
Looks pretty small base on the size of that 9g servo model.
This was more of an exercise to determine the challenges I'll face when trying to designing this properly.
So again, Kudos @cdfigueredo! This wont be easy..
Still super early-days on the design, nothing functional yet, but the look it really cool so far.
Imagine 2 of these, one under each wing.. Awww, that would look awesome!!..
I recessed the servo into the body cavity/pylon, this helps keep the low profile but reduces internal volume.
Anyway, Im most likely going to scrap this whole design and start again.
I just threw random measurements at it, and have no clue how big this'll be IRL.. lol
Looks pretty small base on the size of that 9g servo model.
This was more of an exercise to determine the challenges I'll face when trying to designing this properly.
So again, Kudos @cdfigueredo! This wont be easy..
Attachments
Tench745
Master member
I think you could move the servo to mount on top of the pylon so it will be inside the fuselage when attached. That way you'd only need the pushrod running down through the pylon. It would require cutting large-ish hole in the fuselage to get the servo in though. Not a problem with the pylon attached, but maybe an issue if you want it removable.
Yeah, I would love to have it removable. I was actually thinking of making a bracket for the pylon.
It would be kinda like one of those GoPro helmet mounts. It could be permanently mounted to the plane, and the Smoke unit could be clipped on/off whenever. Just need to plug in the servo.
Might not always want the Smoke unit on the plane.
