'SPIT' roasted FB

[danskis]

I'm attempting to build the F6F with $Tree foam - my first masters series. After really screwing it up and having to remove the tail surfaces I don't care how it looks or comes out - It's the first one and we'll call it practice. A needle cutter would be nice (perhaps essential for some). I didn't realize $Tree foam had grain. Of course it's all about the skin - it doesn't matter what the formers or the frame look like just so long as the skin looks good. Perhaps I'm working it too much but it doesn't seem like the $Tree foam holds up that well to a lot of work.

 

[The Hangar]

I believe Josh is better at pointing out the build pitfalls than John is, I found a few pitfall (builder mistakes, ie me) in the build and I'm sure I'm not alone. I'm about half way through it, I expect to encounter at least one more rework as that's the way a complicated build like this goes.

I agree - the P-38 build video was great but the Corsair build video had some serious issues, and even for an “experienced” builder like me, I had issues due to out-of-order-steps and a missing reference mark.

 

[The Hangar]

I'm attempting to build the F6F with $Tree foam - my first masters series. After really screwing it up and having to remove the tail surfaces I don't care how it looks or comes out - It's the first one and we'll call it practice. A needle cutter would be nice (perhaps essential for some). I didn't realize $Tree foam had grain. Of course it's all about the skin - it doesn't matter what the formers or the frame look like just so long as the skin looks good. Perhaps I'm working it too much but it doesn't seem like the $Tree foam holds up that well to a lot of work.

Yeah, I’m waiting for the 3D printed parts to finish up my needle cutter, and then I’ll build the MS Spit and Mustang. I’ve done the Corsair and P-38 so far, and although the Corsair was only 4 or 5 sheets it was an intense evening of cutting that left my hands very tired. Now the P-38... That was a real job... 😛

 

[mayan]

Yeah, I’m waiting for the 3D printed parts to finish up my needle cutter, and then I’ll build the MS Spit and Mustang. I’ve done the Corsair and P-38 so far, and although the Corsair was only 4 or 5 sheets it was an intense evening of cutting that left my hands very tired. Now the P-38... That was a real job... 😛

I built the master series Corsair and Spitfire and actually find the Corsair build easier then the Spitfire. I guess it’s all a matter of how you come to it. I have a feeling that on the Spitfire I just came with an attitude and that’s how the build looked.

 

[Marty72]

The Master's level is challenging, for me, the challenging part is not the build, or the shaping (which is much easier than I expected if you take your time) but it's the delicate nature of the foam (wrinkling) in compression (after it's been shaped). If you keep the outer skin in tension, while shaping perpendicular to the grain, you can get a flawless surface but the moment you put any pressure (compression) trying to glue it to a former, you can get wrinkles. So many things going on when you are fitting/gluing parts together it's hard not to momentarily put too much pressure on the delicate foam. I'm speaking mainly of the Fuselage, the wing isn't that hard and is really superior to the folded wings. So that's what I've learned so far.

I avoided the Corsair and the P 47 because I read there were issues with the build instruction. The Spitfire video is very, very good, no missing steps, but due to the difficulty level, there are lots a ways to screw up. To be fair, John can't really cover all the pit falls, it's already a 3 hour video as is (and he moves along pretty quickly).

BTW, knowing how to iron edges is a very useful tool. I highly recommend that everyone learn the skill. It's easy and you can practice on scrap pieces. I ironed edges after gluing the wings together, made a much nicer wing smoothing the leading and tailing edges of the 2 piece wing. Battleaxe has a video on it btw.

I took some pics of the LE and TE but it's tough to see. I'll post progress pics either later today or tomorrow on the Master Spit thread for those who are interested.

 

[mayan]

Beautiful work @Marty72!

 

[danskis]

Plus 1 - @Marty72 said the challenging part is not the build, or the shaping (which is much easier than I expected if you take your time) but it's the delicate nature of the foam (wrinkling) in compression (after it's been shaped). If you keep the outer skin in tension, while shaping perpendicular to the grain, you can get a flawless surface but the moment you put any pressure (compression) trying to glue it to a former, you can [will] get wrinkles. And @The Hangar said "and although the Corsair was only 4 or 5 sheets it was an intense evening of cutting that left my hands very tired" Which I agree with - the master series definitely takes a different mental approach - of course you can always buy the kit but that kinda feels like cheating after you've been building with $Tree foam.

 

[Marty72]

Danskis, you said you are building the F6F, is there a build video for that?

BTW, I seriously doubt the FT fb are any better than the DT FB for this. If anyone can say otherwise, I'm all ears, just my opinion. I Just don't think the paper will make any difference and I think the monster foam (thicker) will be worse based on it's thicker foam.

Thanks Mayan, I'm trying but this build is making it tough to stay clean. I may break from my normal process and just build it, to see for myself if it flies significantly better than the basic Ft Spit or not. If it does, I'll build again, hopefully better next time.

I know there are folks that say the Rimfire 3536 1200 is a cult, well, if it's a cult, it's one hell of one because it makes every C pack plane I fly, fly better, faster and more fun. So call me David Koresh. I do want to try the Leopard products (as well as others)and see if I can a better bang for the buck.

Now if you are just learning, and fly slow, the 3536 isn't going to make any difference and may even make it a bit tougher (torque roll).

 

[Marty72]

Well I was wrong! There are no easy parts of this build (involving the fuselage). My hats off to anyone that can complete one of these "Master" level builds because to me this is some sort of sadistic temperament test (and I'm failing!). The bulk of the frustration come from dealing with the delicate foam, trying to get things together without wrinkling it up. Connecting up the sections is the worst. I'm done for today, If I try and do anymore, I'm likely to take it outside, pour gasoline on it and set it on fire .

It's Miller Time! (most of you are probably too young to know about this commercial)

 

[danskis]

@Marty72 - no build video and don't use the 11X17 plans. I thought I was worthy when I started but was soon humbled. Good luck.

https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?resources/foamboard-f6f-hellcat.75/

 

[bracesport]

@Marty72 - well the wing looks marvellous!

 

[mayan]

@Marty72 my 2 cents is don’t worry about how it looks the first time around and just try to enjoy the build as much as possible .

 

[chris398mx]

Well I was wrong! There are no easy parts of this build (involving the fuselage). My hats off to anyone that can complete one of these "Master" level builds because to me this is some sort of sadistic temperament test (and I'm failing!). The bulk of the frustration come from dealing with the delicate foam, trying to get things together without wrinkling it up. Connecting up the sections is the worst. I'm done for today, If I try and do anymore, I'm likely to take it outside, pour gasoline on it and set it on fire .

It's Miller Time! (most of you are probably too young to know about this commercial)

i agree, that is the most frustrating part. I hate it when you work and work and then OOPs you get a big fat wrinkle.

 

[Marty72]

@Marty72 - no build video and don't use the 11X17 plans. I thought I was worthy when I started but was soon humbled. Good luck.

https://forum.flitetest.com/index.php?resources/foamboard-f6f-hellcat.75/

No video, I probably won't try at this point. I'd like the Hellcat a lot but maybe later.

 

[Marty72]

i agree, that is the most frustrating part. I hate it when you work and work and then OOPs you get a big fat wrinkle.

Absolutely! It would be fine if the wrinkles happened during the shaping, ok, bummer, cut out another piece and try again. But after all the work is done, the glue is down and then it happens....ugggh!

Anyway, the fuse is about done, just need to finish the nose. What is done, is done, not going to redo (unless someone won't work/fit). I'm will probably start taking a look at it again this weekend. It's always best for me to step away when I get frustrated and come back when I'm ready to solve the problem (after all, this is suppose to be fun). Nothing in the nose fits correctly (and I can't assemble it), so I may redo the nose (if I have to), it's not a lot of work. I feel much better about it today, ha.

 

[Marty72]

@Marty72 my 2 cents is don’t worry about how it looks the first time around and just try to enjoy the build as much as possible .

Yeah, I appreciate the advice but I struggle with this. Instead, what works for me, is to stop, do something else and come back to it when I'm ready to try again (though it's not always easy to stop). This is always the best solution for me. Like you said, this is suppose to be fun and yesterday afternoon, I was not having fun.

 

[mayan]

Yeah, I appreciate the advice but I struggle with this. Instead, what works for me, is to stop, do something else and come back to it when I'm ready to try again (though it's not always easy to stop). This is always the best solution for me. Like you said, this is suppose to be fun and yesterday afternoon, I was not having fun.

What helps me is to think that when it’s 10-20m in the air no one will notice the screw ups.

 

[bracesport]

@Marty72 - a lightweight filler can do wonders!

 

[Marty72]

@Marty72 - a lightweight filler can do wonders!

Yeah, I'm going to experiment with that. I'll make a few sample pieces, replicate the issue and see if I can clean it up some before painting.

I finished most of the build, still have some detail work, canopy, fairing, ect. I have to say, it's been pretty much a PITA. The wings were fun, the rest, not so much. I just ran into a lot of issues. The wings were going to be angled off of horizontal in the fuse, that's just the way it came out. I spent some time hand sanding the middle section of the fuse and got a great fit and removed the angular issue. That went really well, I was surprised how that worked out. I got the vertical, horizontal and wings aligned properly (that took some work). I had the most trouble with the horizontal stabilizer. I spent a ridiculous amount of time trying to get the power pod to work with the larger Rimfire 3536 without it sticking way out ( I expected that to be really simple but.....). I also made it removable, when the inevitable problem occurs. In the video, John glues it in is such a way, it can't be removed without damaging the plane. I don't understand that.

I'm not sure I'll do any more "Master" builds. It just seems like too much work for a throw away plane (which belly landing planes are). We'll see, I should maiden this later this week. I'm going to give it the full treatment, paint, ect before maiden.

I'm going to take this over to the Unofficial Master Spit forum where it belongs. The second picture is the one that matters ( square). However, the rear of the plane is the worst part of my build.

 

[bracesport]

@Marty72 - I hear you on the time invested for a throw away, but equally you could argue it brings some incentive to focus with a little more at stake!