Twitchity Hex - Oh boy, here we go again!

Twitchity

Senior Member
You seem to have made quite a bit of progress since the last update. It must be the weekend for bad weather because it's raining here too... I get my new servo for my tri today so it looks like I'll only be able to test it inside :(
 

jipp

Senior Member
yeah its been very windy this week ( wind more suitable to a wing thats for sure ), not really all that normal. and they say rain on sunday 80 percent. so i expect rain just where in the valley will it hit. heh.
what makes these kiss esc hotrods? hardware?
chris.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
I need one more ESC to finish my own build of this copter. The PDB makes it so much simpler to assemble.

It has snowed here every day for the past 9 and the dogs are sick of the Hubsan and hardly react to it anymore. Somehow it isn't as much fun to fly the Hubsan when the dogs don't freak out and run from it. :)


KISS ESCs are hot rods because the hardware allows for superior firmware. The one allows the other to really shine.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
The ESC's are "hotrods" because they perform like nothing else due to better hardware and software - but they're finicky and expensive ;)

Just gave it a short test in the front yard. Needs some serious tuning...and the hybrid arms are a fail:

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Didn't even damage any props but snapped that arm like a twig :(

BTW - ready to fly weight with a 1300 (though I actually flew with a 2200) setup like this was 440g. With the 2200 I flew it on it came to 526.

I never got past half throttle...but bobbled a descent due to the touchy throttle and lack of tune resulting in an unplanned contact with the ground which snapped the arm.

Will rebuild tonight after the airshow. The skywriter is up there again today advertising it as I type:

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But the wind is messing with his art. He's writing "airshow" right now and on the S but the A and I are already almost gone :(
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Video is uploading to my youtube channel. Will probably be at the airshow by the time it finishes uploading so you'll have to go there to find it if you don't want to wait for me to post :D

Can't wait to get this thing tuned ... the potential I felt on the short maiden was intense.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Girls are moving slow....they're almost ready to go and the video is done uploading so here it is:


Once the new arms are on I'll be doing some tweaking to the PID's and throttle curve before the next flight. Not looking forward to tuning though, such a pain with this afromini even with the header pins on the FTDI connection.
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
Sorry 'bout the booms, but you had to try.

"Flies at about 1/4 throttle." Have fun with that, jhitesma! :)
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Sorry 'bout the booms, but you had to try.

"Flies at about 1/4 throttle." Have fun with that, jhitesma! :)

Yeah, I figured that even with the wider arms they wouldn't hold up due to the extra weight. Just a little disappointed that a) I crashed it that quickly and b) the arms didn't last even one crash even with no FPV gear and no top layer installed :(

The power on this thing is humbling. It really needs some tuning though. Rates were way low and stock PIDs don't cut it at all. Really hoping the rain holds off tomorrow and I can do some proper tuning on it. Tempted to charge all my 2200's just in case but kind of worried that would assure it rains :D

It's ready to fly again...I've only replaced that one arm so far but it could fly. I'm going to replace the other 5 later today but wanted to repair that one in case I get a chance to do a little bit of tuning on my wife's lunch break this evening.

I also placed an order for a half dozen sets of HQ 6x4.5 props from gothelirc last night and they already shipped so I should have them Monday or Tuesday (love having an in state source with decent prices on props and shipping that costs less then $3 and gets to me in two days...just wish he also carried the FC's - they aren't nearly as nice as the HQ's but they're a lot more affordable and way better than the gemfans.)

Airshow was great BTW. Got to go inside the bomb bay and landing gear of a B-52, got to walk through an Osprey, lots of great aerial acts and my daughter had fun even if the two highlights for here were getting ice cream and riding the school bus shuttle from the parking pad to the flightline :)

She was a little disappointed after waiting in line for the B-52 that they only let you look in the window of the cockpit not actually go inside :( But getting up close and personal with the osprey exhaust made up for that:

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jipp

Senior Member
heck yeah, what a great way to experience the osprey. well no rain here yet but the wind has died.. the clam before the storm? time will tell. iv been fixing my pc all day. stupid files for the update corrupted and with windows you cant just uninstall one of the system files that were installed.. so iv been going through the dos console, one file at a time, then going into the registry, cleaning. and now i know why i like linux.
anyhow, ill order my TX tomorrow.. assuming i have a pc. laughs. yeah that arm broke real easy. it would of been stronger if it was covered with the type of carbon fiber i use in my custom longbows.. heck even fiberglass would of held up way better. but its a different material that what every one i using in the quad scene. i plan on playing with some laminated material which will be much stronger than what iv seen so far.. minus the pure carbon stuff. that stuff is pretty hard to beat but expensive. however, i think my bow building experience will help improve the arms on the FT multi rotors.. i know they will be much stronger than regular wood ( and no need to worry about weight, we worry about that in bow building too.. we want the lightest and stiffest material for a bow limb ). and dirt cheap. :p now, what do you think some curly maple for the body, after all i have all this exotic wood in my shop :p im teasing by the way.. figured wood looks great but is not very strong. but i have some nice veneers that could sexy one up. laughs. ( iv been working with wood since high school.. shop full of wood tools unfortunately health has made me not able to play with them much these days. im rambling now..

chris.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Well, my wife was late getting home for her break so no further test flying tonight. Weather is saying chance of showers in the morning and showers in the afternoon tomorrow - 80% chance of measurable rain. I'm hoping the "yuma bubble" holds...usually it rains everywhere around us but not actually here. Most of the time I hate that because I'd love to get a bit of rain on us...but this time I'm hoping it protects my chance to fly this thing!

Glad I didn't put the silicone tape on with having to swap the arms so quickly :) See, there is some method to my madness ;)

And yeah I love the Ospreys...horrible impractical boondoggle that they are I still love watching them. We have some stationed here in town so I get to see them fairly often - but this was my first time getting to see one this close or getting to go inside of one. I was surprised at just how small they are inside. I had to duck to keep from hitting my head! They look so big flying over town but inside they felt more like a smaller heli.

On the rear ramp about to go in - my wife was taking photos of one of the aerial acts and a snowbird offered to take my and my daughters photo - he apologized for not being very steady so it's not the sharpest of shots.
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She was excited about going in...but was more interested in the cockpit than trying out the seats and I barely got this shot before she shot off to look at the front.
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Since she was more into quantity than quality on her viewing I had to snap a few quick shots of the most interesting things I could - no clue what these panels are.
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This was apparently just a fuse panel...but still looked kind of interesting.
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I may think we wasted our money building them...but I still love that they exist and stop whatever I'm doing to watch them when I hear them fly over!
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Also got to see a new F-35 up close (not quite as close as the other displays but still closer than I expected them to let us get). These things amaze me...but just look kind of bulbous and ugly to me...and for a stealthy jet man are they freaking LOUD (at least until they're past you then oddly enough they're silent...makes me wonder if they did that on purpose so they can be used to intimidate.)

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Big highlight for me was being allowed right up to a B-52. My wife and daughter got to go up and look in the co-pilot window (I had to watch the stroller - but that let me get ground photos). That's an amazing plane!

So big...yet graceful!
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And that's just 1/4 of the engines! Wish I had been able to get something into the shot to give them more scale!
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Got flaps? Holy cow, that flap is about the size of the roof over the back half of my house! And this is the smaller of the two on this wing!
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Insert big boom here - gulp.
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Anyone up for a scale modeling challenge? Got some wheel well details for ya! Just imagine designing this...in the late 40's with no computers. My head spins....
10988906_10152606584631805_1912266610_o.jpg


Also got to see some drones. Real drones. The kind of drones that are the reason I don't like my toys being called drones. Not because I don't want them associated with these - but because I don't want to insult these!

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And last but not least even though it was one of the first that we saw...my favorite plane of the day. Not because it's the most impressive but because of all the hardware we saw today it's the one on my list that I'd love to own someday because it would mean I built it:

11029884_10152606529841805_101492765_o.jpg

1 point to anyone who can name the "manufacturer" (big hint - look at my balsa build) but 10 points to anyone who can identify the model. I love these planes and still had to look at the sign on the prop to figure out which model it was.


I had meant this post to be the build photos of the hex...kind of got off track. So next post I promise - the build!
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Alright. Took a short break to sand the other 5 CF arms and I'm ready to finally post the build photos.

I still feel kind of odd doing this as this is so far from being a finished build. This is just a test assembly at this point really to get the frame and motors in the air. I still need to get a new VTX and want to get a Brain board (I have a spare board cam) and depending on what kind of flight times I get I think I still want to put my LRS on this. But...for now it's at least flying so here's what it took to get it this far:

I figured the voltage regulator was the best place to start. Technically I don't need this right now since the afromini can handle 12v input no problem. The afromini only provides 3.3v out and my RX should be able to run at 3.3v....but I know I'll want a good 5v source at some point so may as well get this in now. First thing I did was tack the pins to the reg:
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Then I added some electrical tape to the reg just to help keep it and the PDB separate:
11033348_10152604120141805_111705500_o.jpg

Then soldered it on and trimmed the pins. Super tight clean fit almost as nice as having the bits on the PDB. (which I would love to do but have yet to find a good affordable and reliable source for the components that doesn't end up costing more than just buying a pololu). I installed it on the "bottom" of the PDB so it will be inside between the bottom plate and the PDB keeping it protected and out of sight:
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Next I wired the afromini to the PDB. I used my favorite IDE drive cable - a 6 conductor pieces for the ESC signals and a 2 conductor piece for power:
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I soldered these wires from underneath to help keep things clean and free up room to mount the mini on top:
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A few bits of 3M outdoor DST and the afromini is mounted. I had to leave the two FC mounting posts in place because they retain the rear arms and I didn't have any spare purple 3M nylocs to replace them with:
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ESC time! 4 new V1.1's on the front and 2 older v1's in the rear. All new in package:
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Out of their package and attached with some DST:
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Signal wires run from the PDB to the ESC's. These are UGLY. The orange is bad enough but trying to run them cleanly...not going to happen. Wish there was a cleaner way to route these but couldn't think of anything:
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And power wires run. At this point I took it outside and put power to it. No magic smoke and all the lights that should light lit:
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So I wired up the motors next. Totally by accident I wound up putting the 2 black base motors on the 2 old ESC's...I had meant to do it on purpose but forgot to and only remembered when I grabbed the 3rd motor - saw it was green and remembered. Then realized I had just mounted the two black ones and they were on the arms with the 2 old ESC's. Lucky:
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In keeping with the clean and minimal thing I added my DIY FlySky RX next. I did breakdown and add a header on the afromini for my RX since I may swap RX's around a bit. I also added a 4 pin FTDI header so I'd be more inclined to not be lazy about tuning:
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No nice battery straps on hand so a cheapie from HF will have to do:
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Cut out some black 1/4" craft foam to pad the battery then pressed it down to mark where the screw heads are then carved out some spots for them:
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Foam sits nice making a good spot for my pack:
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Just put a 1300 on for testing for now...I'm thinking this will need 2200's though:
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Already shared this one yesterday but ready to fly!
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cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
What's it weigh like that?

I fly mine with 1300 and 1800s but the 2200s add ballast in the wind and 35C 1300s don't last very long on this thing. :)
 

Twitchity

Senior Member
It looks like the hex is coming along quite nicely, and that air show looks like a lot of fun. I had high hopes for this hybrid material, but it looks like it should be left to small crafts or for parts where strength isn't as important.
 

jipp

Senior Member
Well, my wife was late getting home for her break so no further test flying tonight. Weather is saying chance of showers in the morning and showers in the afternoon tomorrow - 80% chance of measurable rain. I'm hoping the "yuma bubble" holds...usually it rains everywhere around us but not actually here. Most of the time I hate that because I'd love to get a bit of rain on us...but this time I'm hoping it protects my chance to fly this thing!

Glad I didn't put the silicone tape on with having to swap the arms so quickly :) See, there is some method to my madness ;)

And yeah I love the Ospreys...horrible impractical boondoggle that they are I still love watching them. We have some stationed here in town so I get to see them fairly often - but this was my first time getting to see one this close or getting to go inside of one. I was surprised at just how small they are inside. I had to duck to keep from hitting my head! They look so big flying over town but inside they felt more like a smaller heli.

On the rear ramp about to go in - my wife was taking photos of one of the aerial acts and a snowbird offered to take my and my daughters photo - he apologized for not being very steady so it's not the sharpest of shots.
View attachment 41835

She was excited about going in...but was more interested in the cockpit than trying out the seats and I barely got this shot before she shot off to look at the front.
View attachment 41836

Since she was more into quantity than quality on her viewing I had to snap a few quick shots of the most interesting things I could - no clue what these panels are.
View attachment 41837

This was apparently just a fuse panel...but still looked kind of interesting.
View attachment 41838

I may think we wasted our money building them...but I still love that they exist and stop whatever I'm doing to watch them when I hear them fly over!
View attachment 41839


Also got to see a new F-35 up close (not quite as close as the other displays but still closer than I expected them to let us get). These things amaze me...but just look kind of bulbous and ugly to me...and for a stealthy jet man are they freaking LOUD (at least until they're past you then oddly enough they're silent...makes me wonder if they did that on purpose so they can be used to intimidate.)

View attachment 41840

View attachment 41841

Big highlight for me was being allowed right up to a B-52. My wife and daughter got to go up and look in the co-pilot window (I had to watch the stroller - but that let me get ground photos). That's an amazing plane!

So big...yet graceful!
View attachment 41844

And that's just 1/4 of the engines! Wish I had been able to get something into the shot to give them more scale!
View attachment 41842

Got flaps? Holy cow, that flap is about the size of the roof over the back half of my house! And this is the smaller of the two on this wing!
View attachment 41843

Insert big boom here - gulp.
View attachment 41845

Anyone up for a scale modeling challenge? Got some wheel well details for ya! Just imagine designing this...in the late 40's with no computers. My head spins....
View attachment 41846


Also got to see some drones. Real drones. The kind of drones that are the reason I don't like my toys being called drones. Not because I don't want them associated with these - but because I don't want to insult these!

View attachment 41847

View attachment 41848

View attachment 41849


And last but not least even though it was one of the first that we saw...my favorite plane of the day. Not because it's the most impressive but because of all the hardware we saw today it's the one on my list that I'd love to own someday because it would mean I built it:

View attachment 41850

1 point to anyone who can name the "manufacturer" (big hint - look at my balsa build) but 10 points to anyone who can identify the model. I love these planes and still had to look at the sign on the prop to figure out which model it was.


I had meant this post to be the build photos of the hex...kind of got off track. So next post I promise - the build!

thanks for sharing the photos. it is pretty amazing engineering. and i dig the osprey too. and i agree did we really need one? i do not think so.. but they manage to get the technology figured out at the cost of a lot of lifes.. but thats the story of any air frame i guess if you look deep enough to the past. we only have Apache longbows flying around my house. i always look up at them too. its fun to watch them play hide and seek on the mountain tops in my front yard.

i agree i do not like the drone either.. as when i think drone i think of what you took a picture of.. and it has wings! so, if you want to spy public get some wings :p heh. id love to see what that thing is capable.. im sure it has a RV size control center to fly it FPV or robot mode.

and the f35 sure is ugly. and id imagine everything about it was design to be just how it is. from noise to flying.
stealth is one of them technology which i think is sorta waste of money as it wont last long.. but i guess its cool to have that technology understood tho.

no rain here yet. so we will see. no wind dis-morning either.. im sure black clouds are not far off with 80 percent chance.
chris.
chris.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
With the CF arms weight is 383g with no battery. With a 1300 it comes in at 489g and with a 2200 it comes in a 561g.

It was 440g with the hybrid arms and a 1300 so there's less than a 50g difference between the hybrid and the CF. It feels stiffer now with the CF too.

I'm not sure if my 1300's are even worth trying...2 of them are just the Turnigy 30-40c's and they sag on my 1804 powered quad. I also have two nanotech 45-90's but only one of them is in good shape - the other started getting unbalanced after just 2 gentle cycles. I have some 1500's but they're lower C and can't even keep up with my knuckle quad. I may pick up some higher C 1500's for this to see if that's a sweet spot.

Unfortunately the rain has already hit :( Not actively raining but it's wet out and I'd rather not land in the wet grass whether intentional or not. Plus my wifes car refused to start last night when she went to come home so I have to go try and figure out what's wrong with that.

The hybrid material would be great for micro frames, and would be really good in situations where the forces aren't working against it's faces. I wonder if a small strip of it bonded to the bottom I beam style would make it usable...but that's a lot more work for not much weight savings. Neat material with lots of potential...but these are just too big for it.
 

jipp

Senior Member
yeah starting to get sprinkles here nothing major yet but i see it coming.. they say rain for next few days.. so, yeah. i love the rain tho, and have nothing to fly so i do not mind. but if i had something to fly yeah id want to hold off. heh. good luck on with the car.

how big was the drone any how? looks pretty big. 6 feet wing span.
chris.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Rain is holding off - grass is dryish...gave it a test pack in the front yard. No cam since I didn't want to jinx it :D Flew well but still needs a lot of tuning, gets out of hand FAST right now. Had a bigger oops than the one that broke the hybrid arm and the CF held up just fine.

Yaw is still way less than I expected even with the rate turned up to 0.8 and the P dropped to 6.5 - guess I'll have to push that harder. Tough to say though as it's very hard to do a hard yaw without giving a little bit of throttle by mistake and even a tiny bit of throttle makes it take off.

Even so it's vertical performance isn't quite as jaw dropping as I expected. For as light and overpowered as it is I was expecting more. I wonder if maybe my pack isn't delivering as well as it could to keep all 6 motors happy. Then again I haven't gone full full throttle yet since I don't have the room to recover if things get crazy - and I want to get the tune a bit better before I push it that hard.

It's definitely a different beast than a quad...I didn't expect it to feel this different. Hard to explain the difference though. Feels like it will be a great camera ship - but even in this stripped down configuration it just doesn't feel very acrobatic. Have the rates high enough I could flip it...but haven't tried yet since I don't have room (say it with me) if things get crazy.

The drones were pretty big, I'd say more like 8-10 foot wingspans. There were three, all different designs and all big. The props looked like about 24" on them and were beautiful carbon fiber :D

Oh - and did manage to rescue the car. As I suspected it was just a loose battery cable. Negative terminal on the new battery has bad threads. Took it back and got it replaced and car is ok again...at least as ok as a 99 Pontiac with 150k+ miles is likely to get ;)
 

Balu

Lurker
Staff member
Admin
Moderator
I have to admit it took me a while to understand what you had to do with goth and/or what elirc is... gothelirc