XF VIPER - Foamboard F-16 EDF

[nevenelestate]

I'm new to this and my first time. How do you make the diagram bigger? Each piece to actual size. I want to print them on my printer but I don't know how to make them bigger and to the right size

Open the .pdf files in Adobe Acrobat and select "poster"

 

[nevenelestate]

Looks great! Can’t wait to see you fly it! I know its a little early to be asking, but do you have a paint scheme for yours in mind?

DTFB white

I would love to do one up in my first squadron's tail 555FS "WFHR Once Green, always Green"

 

[2jujube7]

I worked on F-16's in the USAF from 2002-2007, so they have a special place in my heart, and this project has been on my radar for years.

That's awesome!

I am planning to try using an 1806 2400kv motor with a trimmed down 3" prop. I haven't gotten it all sorted out just yet to test the thrust, but hoping that I can get it to work with a 4S battery setup.

I'm guessing that the motor you're using isn't the motor from FT power pack A, right? Not sure, but just I just feel like it would overheat.

EDIT: Nevermind, I just realized that the FT power pack A comes with a 2280kV motor.

 

[Matthew Sanders]

That's awesome!

I'm guessing that the motor you're using isn't the motor from FT power pack A, right? Not sure, but just I just feel like it would overheat.

EDIT: Nevermind, I just realized that the FT power pack A comes with a 2280kV motor.

@2jujube7 I like your forum signature!

 

[The Hangar]

@2jujube7 I like your forum signature!

Just read it lol - it's really good!

 

[nevenelestate]

That's awesome!

I'm guessing that the motor you're using isn't the motor from FT power pack A, right? Not sure, but just I just feel like it would overheat.

EDIT: Nevermind, I just realized that the FT power pack A comes with a 2280kV motor.

I have about 1.5mm air gap around the bell, side vents to flush air out from near the motor and holes in the back of the motor mount that align with the motors cooling...hoping it will stay cool enough

These are just prototypes this the short height of the outer wall.

 

[2jujube7]

Just read it lol - it's really good!

@2jujube7 I like your forum signature!

Thanks, I thought it was pretty funny too. No one else in my class got the joke except for me. I'm pretty sure that they still think I'm crazy...

 

[Crawford Bros. Aeroplanes]

I worked on F-16's in the USAF from 2002-2007, so they have a special place in my heart, and this project has been on my radar for years. Finally decided I'm going to build one! I don't want to go buy a 70mm EDF though so I am designing a BDF style duct to use. I have already made BDF style duct/mounts for my FTA-10 and it flew well, currently having FC issues but that's another thread, so this is not my first time with this style of motor setup.

I am planning to try using an 1806 2400kv motor with a trimmed down 3" prop. I haven't gotten it all sorted out just yet to test the thrust, but hoping that I can get it to work with a 4S battery setup.

Here's my first printed prototype, I've expanded the inner wall gap by the motor for more cooling and added a few other holes under the motor to get more cooling. Once I get this "perfected" I'll share the STLs on thingiverse and on here.
View attachment 188144

Is that a 70mm fan? If so it will not have enough thrust for a jet like this, I tried it on an F-35 with a 2207 2400kv on 4s and it didn't work. BDFs are able to work because they're bigger than most EDFs and can move more air to compensate for the fewer blades and fit bigger planes with much lighter wing loading.
I ended up reusing the same housing and getting a 450-sized motor from value hobby and a 12 blade fan and building it into a normal EDF.

 

[nevenelestate]

Is that a 70mm fan? If so it will not have enough thrust for a jet like this, I tried it on an F-35 with a 2207 2400kv on 4s and it didn't work. BDFs are able to work because they're bigger than most EDFs and can move more air to compensate for the fewer blades and fit bigger planes with much lighter wing loading.
I ended up reusing the same housing and getting a 450-sized motor from value hobby and a 12 blade fan and building it into a normal EDF.

It is approx the same size as "70mm EDF." I took the plans and used the 73mm hole in the motor bulkheads and used that as the outside diameter, I believe it's 69mm ID. If it doesn't make enough thrust then I guess I'll have to buy an EDF

Side note, shouldn't a 18xx motor size, vs 22xx motor housing, allow more air to flow through?

 

[Crawford Bros. Aeroplanes]

It is approx the same size as "70mm EDF." I took the plans and used the 73mm hole in the motor bulkheads and used that as the outside diameter, I believe it's 69mm ID. If it doesn't make enough thrust then I guess I'll have to buy an EDF

Side note, shouldn't a 18xx motor size, vs 22xx motor housing, allow more air to flow through?

Theoretically yes but I don't think the difference would be that great. Mine didn't even have enough thrust to scoot along the floor. It's basically like trying to run a power pack C plane on a power pack A. Give it a go though, maybe I'm wrong.

 

[Matthew Sanders]

Theoretically yes but I don't think the difference would be that great. Mine didn't even have enough thrust to scoot along the floor. It's basically like trying to run a power pack C plane on a power pack A. Give it a go though, maybe I'm wrong.

Maybe you didn’t have enough air in the fan? With most store-bought EDF jets, they have “Cheater Holes” or “cheater vents” to get the necessary amount of air into the Ducted fan. The F-35 has kinda small intake inlets, and without cheater holes it might not have had enough air.

 

[Intashu]

Theoretically yes but I don't think the difference would be that great. Mine didn't even have enough thrust to scoot along the floor. It's basically like trying to run a power pack C plane on a power pack A. Give it a go though, maybe I'm wrong.

In my own experience with a Viggen on a 3d printed EDF, it was pretty relevant to trying to fly a C pack plane with a F pack motor (because that's basically what you're doing) It flew, but it really felt under powered and could not climb quick at all without stalling out. The Viggen however is good low speed charactaristics to help it fly at all however!

It is approx the same size as "70mm EDF." I took the plans and used the 73mm hole in the motor bulkheads and used that as the outside diameter, I believe it's 69mm ID. If it doesn't make enough thrust then I guess I'll have to buy an EDF

Side note, shouldn't a 18xx motor size, vs 22xx motor housing, allow more air to flow through?

I recently made a 3d printed 70mm EDF motor, 12 blade, powered by a 2207 2500kv motor. running it in my Viggen on 4s.

I do not know how much better or worse a lower blade count would be for the thrust, but I can say with absolute confidence that it produces WAY less power than a proper 70mm EDF would. The Viggen is a great lower speed jet, and it flies, but only just, It's massively under powered.

My father built a 90% scaled down Viggen, same 3d printed EDF but with a 2700kv motor. It's 20% lighter and flies a little better, but even on 4s, it still isn't anywhere near what the 70mm EDF I just purchased can do on 3s. (Which I purchased specifically so I can build this jet starting this weekend!)

I only caution you because a ~70mm BDF will still produce way less power than a 70mm EDF would, they need to be larger to compensate for smaller motor size/power, and the plane needs to be real light for it to work.

Now I do not have any measurements or data to back up what I'm saying currently, Just wanted to throw out my own experience with using a smaller motor to try to be a cheap alternative to the real thing.

based on my experience I wouldn't attempt this plane on a 2207 motor setup. But it will be interesting to see how yours performs.

 

[nevenelestate]

I recently made a 3d printed 70mm EDF motor, 12 blade, powered by a 2207 2500kv motor. running it in my Viggen on 4s.

Was that a 5mm shaft hole prop? If so do you have a link? what 2207 motor were you using?

 

[Intashu]

Was that a 5mm shaft hole prop? If so do you have a link? what 2207 motor were you using?

My mistake, it was a 2206 motor not a 2207.
Here's the one I am using.
https://store.flitetest.com/flite-test-radial-2206-2500kv-brushless-motor-flt-3054/p873733

This is where I am not 100% sure how my experience will differ from our own, I am using a 12 blade 3d printed "Edf" style prop on this, so it's not quite the same as a prop in the same area.

 

[nevenelestate]

I am using a 12 blade 3d printed "Edf" style prop on this, so it's not quite the same as a prop in the same area.

This is what I was curious about, I'm not trying to use a 3D printed prop, I don't trust an Ender 3 for that

I wonder if it would be worth trying some of these new HQ "duct" props, and either trim the 75mm ones down, or make the duct slightly larger to fit 75mm prop?

 

[Matthew Sanders]

This is what I was curious about, I'm not trying to use a 3D printed prop, I don't trust an Ender 3 for that

I wonder if it would be worth trying some of these new HQ "duct" props, and either trim the 75mm ones down, or make the duct slightly larger to fit 75mm prop?

View attachment 188323

That would probably work better that a 3 blade mini quad rotor. I have a Freewing F-18 with a 5 blade EDF. It works, but more blades are probably better.

 

[speedy7385]

Some info on how effective work and efficiency, same apply to BDF. Some reading if you don't mind.

https://www.flitetest.com/articles/edf-thrust-tubes-flite-tip

 

[speedy7385]

Meant edf

 

[christ98406]

emax 2205s 3 blades
4s 2200

 

[Intashu]

emax 2205s 3 blades
4s 2200

Reminds me a lot of how my Viggen flies with a 2205 2500kv motor and 3d printed EDF. It works pretty well, but isn't particularly fast!

I'm still working on mine. Just finished the wings but there are some fitment issues so I got to measure everything and figure out what to trim to match it all up together!