32" Pietenpol Air Camper restoration

I went to the website, I was impressed by the variety of laminate materials and curious about the low heat as well. Didn't see the mat low heat in less than 3 mil though. Looks like I'll just get the regular 1.5 mat, appears to cover very well.
 

TooJung2Die

Master member
How does paint adhere to the stuff?
Not so good. I mean it doesn't fall off in flakes but it comes off if you scratch it. The first Doculam airplane I did was airbrushed with Apple Barrel acrylic a couple of years ago. I sealed it with a light coat of Krylon Crystal Clear. It shows some nicks where the paint has scratched off while bouncing around in the car.
Does it need primer?
Never tried using a primer. It has to be thoroughly cleaned with alcohol to remove the lubricant applied during manufacturing. I found a multi-surface acrylic paint at Michael's craft stores. That seems to be sticking better because there is no hanger rash on that airplane. I sealed that airplane's paint with a brushed on coat of Eze Dope because it has water slide decals on it.

There is a matte finish Doculam. I should've bought a roll of that instead of the standard gloss. But, I have an enormous roll of the standard stuff so I'll be using that until I die. :) Aloft Hobbies sells it by the foot if you want to buy enough for one airplane. They call it "New Stuff". It's cheap.
 

TooJung2Die

Master member
Detachable struts. I hoped @Piotrsko was going to explain his idea of using fuel tubing. So I came up with another idea. I made strut attachment points from gift card plastic.

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I cut some 1/4 x1/8 strips from hard balsa then drilled and slotted the ends. They attach to the wings with screws.

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I made a removable wire pin to attach the bottom end of the struts to the fuselage.

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Struts in place. Remove the wire from each side and the struts disconnect. It looks okay and it's pretty easy to manage.

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The addition of the struts really stiffens up and strengthens the wing attachment. They will be sanded to round off the sharp corners.

Jon
 
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TooJung2Die

Master member
No engine detail huh? Looks great anyhow.
Tough audience. :LOL: Thanks, it doesn't look bad. I might add some decoration and an engine if I like how it flies. Not all Pietenpol had Model A engines. Right now it's a Peter Sripol electric Pietenpol. :) I wasn't real impressed with the build quality after stripping the tissue but i went ahead with the restoration anyway. It's ready for the maiden flight.

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I forgot the first motor I put in had a bad bearing. It sounded terrible. I swapped in a 1806 2300kv quad motor.

Jon
 
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OliverW

Legendary member
Tough audience. :LOL: Thanks, it doesn't look bad. I might add some decoration and an engine if I like how it flies. Not all Pietenpol had Model A engines. Right now it's a Peter Sripol electric Pietenpol. :ROFLMAO: I wasn't real impressed with the build quality after stripping the tissue but i went ahead with the restoration anyway. It's ready for the maiden flight.

View attachment 174955

View attachment 174956

I forgot the first motor I put in had a bad bearing. It sounded terrible. I swapped in a 1806 2300kv quad motor.

Jon
You did an amazing job! I love the pietenpol
 

"Corpse"

Legendary member
Tough audience. :LOL: Thanks, it doesn't look bad. I might add some decoration and an engine if I like how it flies. Not all Pietenpol had Model A engines. Right now it's a Peter Sripol electric Pietenpol. :ROFLMAO: I wasn't real impressed with the build quality after stripping the tissue but i went ahead with the restoration anyway. It's ready for the maiden flight.

View attachment 174955

View attachment 174956

I forgot the first motor I put in had a bad bearing. It sounded terrible. I swapped in a 1806 2300kv quad motor.

Jon
Awesome job! If you can you should make a radial engine for it!
 

TooJung2Die

Master member
Well that didn't go well. :rolleyes:

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Maiden flight lasted maybe 3 seconds. I honestly don't know what happened. CG is slightly forward. I had the correct airplane selected and the control surfaces are moving in the right direction (I double checked after the crash). I tossed it, it went up, rolled over, came down. I broke my own cardinal rule; always test glide a new airplane before flying it under power.

It's repairable.

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It will get a test glide before the next maiden flight.

Jon
 
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OliverW

Legendary member
Well that didn't go well. :rolleyes:

View attachment 175013

Maiden flight lasted maybe 3 seconds. I honestly don't know what happened. CG is slightly forward. I had the correct airplane selected and the control surfaces are moving in the right direction (I double checked after the crash). I tossed it, it went up, went over, came down. I broke my own cardinal rule; always test glide a new airplane before flying it under power.

It's repairable.

View attachment 175014

It will get a test glide before the next maiden flight.

Jon
At least the damage was minimal!
 

TooJung2Die

Master member
Is the wing warped? No. The dihedral has a curve. The wing is bowed up slightly towards the tips. If you could look at the wing from the tip you'd see all the ribs are parallel. It's patched up, ready to fly again and you can see the same illusion in this photo.

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Too late to drive back to the RC field so I gave it a few test glides in the backyard. It glides nice! It made a few 100' glides going down a slight slope. I ran over to a nearby park to get in one quick test flight before dark. I gave it just enough throttle to spin the prop and tossed it. It glided straight away just like before. By the time I got my hands on the sticks it was close to the ground so I gave it half throttle. It instantly snap rolled hard to the left and into the ground. The firewall broke but now I know what the problem is. Yay. I thought maybe I gave it a horrifically bad throw and caused the first crash. I made a new firewall giving it more right and down thrust. I also put on a thinner prop with less pitch.

I've built and flown a lot of airplanes and that was the worst torque roll I've ever seen. I did not expect that from a high wing low CG airplane.

Jon
 

Tench745

Master member
Is the wing warped? No. The dihedral has a curve. The wing is bowed up slightly towards the tips. If you could look at the wing from the tip you'd see all the ribs are parallel. It's patched up, ready to fly again and you can see the same illusion in this photo.

View attachment 175045

Too late to drive back to the RC field so I gave it a few test glides in the backyard. It glides nice! It made a few 100' glides going down a slight slope. I ran over to a nearby park to get in one quick test flight before dark. I gave it just enough throttle to spin the prop and tossed it. It glided straight away just like before. By the time I got my hands on the sticks it was close to the ground so I gave it half throttle. It instantly snap rolled hard to the left and into the ground. The firewall broke but now I know what the problem is. Yay. I thought maybe I gave it a horrifically bad throw and caused the first crash. I made a new firewall giving it more right and down thrust. I also put on a thinner prop with less pitch.
I've built and flown a lot of airplanes and that was the worst torque roll I've ever seen. I did not expect that from a high wing low CG airplane.
Jon

A pretty light, slow airplane though. Glad it's fixable and you know it can fly.
 

TooJung2Die

Master member
That was the solution. No more torque roll. It flies! The first quick test flight was ROG from smooth dirt. It flies a lot like the Flite Test Mini SE5 and DR1. Its short fuselage, big rudder, big elevator made it hard to handle until I reduced the throws by half and added a big dose of expo. Landing is easy, just cut the throttle and glide it in for a smooth landing.

I took it to the RC field for it's official maiden flight. It wouldn't roll on the grass so I had to hand launch. I shot video of one flight. I'll post it after it's edited to something watchable. Here's a snapshot from the video.

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Jon
 
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speedbirdted

Legendary member
Does it wag the tail around a lot in turns? My Q-tee does that, because it doesn't have much dihedral, and subsequently is relatively slow to auto-coordinate. Especially when starting and finishing them.

Great looking plane otherwise! I like the transparency of the paint. Almost looks like light fabric or silkspan.
 

TooJung2Die

Master member
It would probably fly better with more dihedral. Turns can be tricky. It'll bank real hard and will dive if you aren't careful. Once it is banked be ready to give it rudder in the opposite direction or it'll continue to roll. It's sensitive to changes in air movement. It'll be flying straight and level and a small gust will roll it or knock it off in another direction. I found myself most comfortable flying it two mistakes high at low throttle.

I appreciate the kind words. The translucent effect comes from airbrushing light coats of very thin paint. You can see the solid color repair patches on the bottom of the wing next to the strut mounts because I used a paint brush.

[edit]
Now that I think about it ... it doesn't yaw a lot with the rudder. The most noticeable characteristic is the tendency to roll with the rudder, like the mini SE5 and DR1.
 
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Tench745

Master member
Beautiful little Piet.

I wanted to add some information here that you may or may not have. That "turbulence" you're hitting are thermals releasing. Thermals are like the bubbles in a pot of boiling water, they form at the bottom (ground) until they get big enough then release and rise. When there's enough heat in the system they just keep releasing in an almost constant stream. In the video you can see birds in the distance soaring one of those bubble streams; a larger thermal. The more heat the ground can absorb the more heat it can radiate and the faster it can generate those thermals.
Hot, dry air (like from the sun-baked dirt of a field) will generate more thermals because it will heat up faster. Wetter air like you'll get over a body of water or lush greenery will generate less lift. Sometimes you can actually get something called "tree sink" where the air above a tree line is so much cooler or wetter that it sinks, pulling your plane down towards the trees. Staying over that lush, green runway will keep you in an area of low- thermal activity because there is more moisture present and the grass absorbs a lot of that heat.

Does it wag the tail around a lot in turns? My Q-tee does that, because it doesn't have much dihedral, and subsequently is relatively slow to auto-coordinate. Especially when starting and finishing them.
I would tend to associate tail wagging with an under-sized vertical fin more than the lack of dihedral, though they do both play a part.

It would probably fly better with more dihedral. Turns can be tricky. It'll bank real hard and will dive if you aren't careful. Once it is banked be ready to give it rudder in the opposite direction or it'll continue to roll. It's sensitive to changes air movement. It'll be flying straight and level and a small gust wil roll it or knock it off in another direction. I found myself most comfortable flying it two mistakes high at low throttle.

[edit]
Now that I think about it ... it doesn't yaw a lot with the rudder. The most noticeable characteristic is the tendency to roll with the rudder, like the mini SE5 and DR1.
With a 3-channel plane like this you want some roll-coupling (where a rudder input causes the plane to roll) so that it can bank without ailerons. But, too much dihedral can get you excessive roll-coupling and make things unmanageable. It looks to me like your Piet has just about the right amount. I think a little wash-out in the wingtips would do more to improve the way it turns.
I had a similar problem with my FT Simple Soarer when I built a new wing for it. Without some washout in the wing it would take a lot of rudder before the plane started to actually turn, and about the time it did, the plane would bank suddenly and pitch the nose down. This was most-likely the wingtip stalling. Giving just a little washout helps keep the wingtip flying and makes turns much more predictable.

The fact that you also have to give immediate opposite rudder to stop the turn makes wonder if you may also have too much expo. If there is too much expo, the dead zone around center stick is too large you'll be feeding in more and more rudder waiting for something to happen, then by the time something finally does happen you've already moved the stick farther and have to jump back the other way, and you can end up fighting the corrections you just gave. This leads to pilot-induced oscillations, where you're just fighting yourself trying to find neutral. This is a personal-preference and can vary from airplane to airplane. Personally, I never fly with more than 30% expo and keep it turned off for anything but my faster/twitchier planes.
 

TooJung2Die

Master member
Sometimes you can actually get something called "tree sink" where the air above a tree line is so much cooler or wetter that it sinks, pulling your plane down towards the trees. Staying over that lush, green runway will keep you in an area of low- thermal activity because there is more moisture present and the grass absorbs a lot of that heat.

I think you explained why the airplane suddenly sank. There are no trees at that spot but there is a nice cool creek. Watch it again and you'll see it loses altitude quickly. I recovered by giving it full throttle. It got wobbly because of the high rates and my panic sticking. Barely kept it out of the water. We always joke that the creek is an airplane magnet but it looks like there is science behind it.

There was no expo on the flight video. On the next flights I reduced the rates by half and gave it a healthy dose of expo. I like the way it flies much better that way. I always fly with expo so it feels normal. Personally, I never fly with less than 30% expo. After getting it home I added more lead to the nose. I hate adding weight but I want to see what difference it makes next time out. I also added a little wash out to the wings.
 
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OliverW

Legendary member
I think you explained why the airplane suddenly sank. There are no trees at that spot but there is a nice cool creek. Watch it again and you'll see it loses altitude quickly. I recovered by giving it full throttle. It got wobbly because of the high rates and my panic sticking. Barely kept it out of the water. We always joke that the creek is an airplane magnet but it looks like there is science behind it.

There was no expo on the flight video. On the next flights I reduced the rates by half and gave it a healthy dose of expo. I like the way it flies much better that way. I always fly with expo so it feels normal. Personally, I never fly with less than 30% expo. After getting it home I added more lead to the nose. I hate adding weight but I want to see what difference it makes next time out. I also added a little wash out to the wings.
I hate expo for the most part. I like my planes to be relatively twitchy. Except for my big gassers.. my slick was setup with 50% expo. I tried 30% but it was extremely twitchy and not enjoyable to fly