EMAX Nighthawk Pro 280 ARF

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
I love sand. I also love oceans. But I hate beaches. Yeah, I know I'm weird.

I just like my sand dry and I like rocky shores with minimal sand for my oceans.

I'm not however a fan of crashing in sand. Not at all.

I'm dying to get out and take this little guy for a flight over the big sand dunes west of here...but need more confidence with it first. Gotta do it soon though...weather is cool enough to do it but not cool enough for the dunes to be busy yet. Few more weeks and it will be crowded out there too. Plus come October need to have a pass to visit the dunes...when I moved here in 99 passes were $30 a year. Now they're $150. Which is why I spend less time there and more on my other hobbies now :D
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
So got a message from my contact at GearBest last night that they're having an emax promotion: http://goo.gl/U0m8i0

Looks like the 280 ARF is for sale at only $150 (only 10 left available at that price.) I'd say it's a good deal at the regular price, but at $150...this thing is a steal - $50 in savings can go a long way towards putting a better camera and VTX on it to resolve the issues I have with it ;) They aren't available at that price for another 6 hours...and I doubt they'll last long.

Looks like some decent deals on emax motors (and really good prices on the simon series ESC's but I'm not a huge fan of those, they're a good choice if budget is your main concern but there are better ESC's for not much more...like the emax blheli series which aren't as well represented in this sale.)

Finally got the last of the sand out of my motors too - now to just wake up early enough Saturday to get some time over the grass at the park before people show up :D
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
I love sand. I also love oceans. But I hate beaches. Yeah, I know I'm weird.

I just like my sand dry and I like rocky shores with minimal sand for my oceans.

I'm not however a fan of crashing in sand. Not at all.

Crashing in snow causes less damage.

Sand is the number one reason for me to go home with full lipos because even after a little crash that doesn't break any props you still have to take the C clip off the bottom of motors and brush the sand off the magnets. Silly putty works well for this too if the sand has a high iron content and won't brush off the magnets.

Sand would not be such a hassle if it were simpler to take the motors apart in the field.

I sometimes get motors packed so full of sand I cannot take the bell off even with the shaft removed. I just have to replace them. After 3 years I have a small stack of <> 10 motors like this. They would run if I could take them apart to get the sand out but you break them prying them apart because the sand has the bell jammed on tight. No, I didn't forget to pull a grub screw.

It is common for me to fly 2 minutes and spend 45 cleaning the sand out of motors before I can fly again. At least in the snow, when you crash you just set the copter aside and go play 'Kerbal Space Program' while it dries out.

Desert sand (magnetic) is the harshest place to fly.

Those of you flying over nice park grass thank your lucky stars. It cuts your learning time in half.
 

Snarls

Gravity Tester
Mentor
So got a message from my contact at GearBest last night that they're having an emax promotion: http://goo.gl/U0m8i0

Thanks for sharing. Tempting for me to pick up a set of Emax 2216s for a build I'm planning, but I'm not sure about the quality. I may end up with Sunnyskys or Multistars. I've never been much of an impulse buyer anyway.

I will be braving the snow this winter (if the El Nino doesn't dry us out), but as Cranial says snow is better than sand, assuming you don't fry your electronics.
 

jipp

Senior Member
id take emax over multistar if i had a choice.. its all about what you want to spend i guess. im quite happy with emax.
chris.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Sand would not be such a hassle if it were simpler to take the motors apart in the field.

Spare clips and good clip pliers would make it a lot easier :) I keep meaning to pick both up.

I sometimes get motors packed so full of sand I cannot take the bell off even with the shaft removed. I just have to replace them. After 3 years I have a small stack of <> 10 motors like this. They would run if I could take them apart to get the sand out but you break them prying them apart because the sand has the bell jammed on tight. No, I didn't forget to pull a grub screw.

I've yet to pack any that full....our sand must be coarser than yours! I've had some really packed full but with some gentle persuasion I've always managed to get them apart to clean them. So far <knocks on wood> I've yet to damage the windings on any due to packing them full of sand thankfully...but that's my biggest fear. A few scratches on the magnets isn't great but isn't the end of the world.

It is common for me to fly 2 minutes and spend 45 cleaning the sand out of motors before I can fly again. At least in the snow, when you crash you just set the copter aside and go play 'Kerbal Space Program' while it dries out.

Yeah...but I'm never living anywhere that I have to shovel precipitation again :) At least sand usually just blows away and I don't even have to sweep it ;)

Desert sand (magnetic) is the harshest place to fly.

Those of you flying over nice park grass thank your lucky stars. It cuts your learning time in half.

Yes yes yes :D That iron content drives me crazy, I've tried the silly putty and other similar things but never had much luck with them. My current method is basically to use an alcohol soaked Q-tip to clean the magnets and push all the debris down to the bottom of the magnets. I then remove as much as I can but any I can't get I just leave on the bottom of the magnets and hope that the force of spinning the motors up will toss it free.


I also agree with JIPP, I'd take SunnySky or Cobara over emax gladly....but I'd also take emax over multistar anyday. I admit I haven't tried any MS motors but my experience with their ESC's really spoiled me against the brand. Plus it's HK and they're just not well known for QC.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Ok, it's officially official now. The VTX is only 19ch.

Mark from 2dogrc over on rcgroups who has contacts at emax (since he's a reseller for them) got the following answer from emax:

The second batch and future batch are different. Because if the product has to pass the FCC certificate, the frequency should be limited.
So the frenquency has to be limited between 5725-5850MHZ

So yes, the VTX on the nighthawk is neutered and not actually 32ch despite it's label :(

Though their answer doesn't make a lot of sense to me. They're still not going to pass FCC certification with the VTX even with the channels limited like that. To pass FCC certification for unlicensed use they'd have to limit the power and permanently attach the antenna (as we've seen on other FCC approved VTX's) and they haven't done either of those. The TX can still be switched to 200mw with the simple flipping of a switch and the antenna can be replaced (which the FCC frowns upon since the regulation is over ERP - Effective Radiated Power and that varies based on the antenna. This is why you don't see routers with removable antennas anymore as just one example.)

Bottom line though is I'm not going crazy and my assumption that the chart in my manual is correct is a correct assumption. So until I get a different RX this stock VTX is useless for me. And due to the non-standard sized connector so is the camera. Would really like to see emax at least use the same size connectors as everyone else so it would be easier to replace the camera and/or VTX given the limitations. This really is a major defect on this quad IMHO since the pre-installed/configured video system is a big selling point. But at least now we have full confirmation about what exactly the setup is and consumers can be well informed before their purchase.


Did have some LOS fun with it after work yesterday. Finally did something I've been wanting to try for awhile but keep forgetting to do while I'm in the air. Successfully did a piro-flip where I flipped while doing a yaw spin. It was really disorientating and looked pretty ugly in the air...but was a fun and I think I can get it looking a bit cleaner with some practice ;)
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
I also agree with JIPP, I'd take SunnySky or Cobara over emax gladly....but I'd also take emax over multistar anyday. I admit I haven't tried any MS motors but my experience with their ESC's really spoiled me against the brand. Plus it's HK and they're just not well known for QC.

For some reason this last paragraph reminded me of this.

Happy Saturday! :)
 

Cyberdactyl

Misfit Multirotor Monkey
So. . . after those posts, I am doubly grateful I have little to no sand in which to contend.

My demon is humidity.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Well, my co-worker who was all excited about coming flying this weekend had something come up Saturday morning, and Sunday morning didn't respond to my text until 12:30 when I was on my way to lunch (and it was already 105f out so I wasn't really up for a trip to the "field" even if it wasn't crowded.)

But the super blood moon seems to have affected my daughter and and by 5PM I had to do something to burn off some steam or risk not having a daughter anymore. Went up to rat shack to look for a buzzer to see if I could get that wired up and working on this guy...only to find my local store (which escaped the bankruptcy closures) has been remodeled yet again and now has one teeny tiny rack of parts instead of the two aisles they had just a few months ago. Grrr. Ran a few more errands looking for bits for the animatronic ghost I'm building and between the stores not having what I wanted and all the Sunday/full moon/early snowbird drivers out today (Seriously people, side by side doing 15 in a 35?!?!) I didn't care about the heat anymore...I had to do some flying to release the pressure.

Well, at least the sky is gorgeous....let's pop the mobius on the 280 and do a little front yard LOS acro to relax.

That started well. Even on the stock PID's I'm getting some nice tight almost no altitude loss double and triple flips. Yaw is still a bit sluggish...that yawing flip I'm working on still looks as scary as it feels...hmm, this wind is getting a bit nasty. Meh, the pack is still fresh let's go do some more rolls. And...oops. Full throttle into the street. Looks like lots of bits flying off. Doh.

Two "indestructible" DAL 6045's in the broken prop pile. Not unexpected and no big deal there.

Hmm, that big ugly tail is pretty cracked up though:
12076168_10153038581491805_1321187494_o.jpg

Well, I've been looking for an excuse to cut that monstrosity off...good thing I didn't have the stock VTX mounted. The case around it may have helped add some strength and minimized the damage, but I suspect this would have broken the case and VTX as well.

No broken arms, two of them have some rough edges on the ends now...and oh...what's this?
12055304_10153038586121805_2052302685_o.jpg

Guess I know which arm hit first. Sheared the head off a mounting screw (good thing emax includes a spare!) but the arm held up and the motor is still in good shape!

Yeah...this thing can take some serious hits :D

Really wish this heat would break already...though it was going to but then came back. Next 7 days are all predicted closer to 110 than 100....but looks like the week after that predictions are finally dropping under 100. Hopefully just a few more weeks until I can go do some serious flying without having to guzzles a couple gallons of water to replace what I sweat out in 15 minutes of being out of my vehicle :cool:
 

jipp

Senior Member
good morning jason. it was quite the interesting day that is for sure with the blood moon.. especially when it got dark.. i went to town, and there were moon watchers parked on every corner near a dark path.. no more blood moons for another 18 years. heh.

wow, nice bruise.. its amazing how much of a hit these things can take considering all the forces that are put on them..

yeah i was ready to say winter was here.. but like you.. i was wrong it seems.. i figure 1 week and winter will be here.. lets hope. i go to see my doctor on the first. then i should have the release from him to start trying to be a human again. then i will start my zmr project.

thats the plan.. hope all is well on your end.. rock on my friend.

chris.
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
We had a good time watching the moon, brought my daughters telescope out into the driveway and invited the neighbors and friends over to watch....but no one showed up. Heck I didn't even see anyone else look up at the sky and there were quite a few neighbors out and about :(

Watching the eclipse happen through the telescope was neat, and once it reached totality it was really amazing to see stars right next to the full moon (dimmer than 8.4mag since I couldn't find them in stellarium and I had it set to only show stars brighter than 8.4) - usually those would be totally washed out by the moon. Really made me wish I had been able to pickup a camera adapter for the scope :(

Also got some great views of Saturn, and the summer triangle was looking great right overhead even before the sky was fully dark. Even got to take a close look and resolve a couple of double stars which kind of blew my daughters mind a bit :D

Just couldn't believe how little interest there seemed to be in actually looking up at the sky here locally :(
 

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
My dogs were nuts during the super moon.

My wife and I went out a few times to watch the moon but the blood moon was done by 9:30 our time. Still, about 2 in the morning the moon was full and the yard was bright so I threw the frizbee for my Squiggy dog and got the Poo to chase the luminous throwing ring for a few.

After that, the dogs were all worn out and we got some sleep. :)
 

jipp

Senior Member
that is so strange people up there did not get intrested in the bloody moon.. it was quite the trend here. i just assumed it would be the same up there too.. as what iv noticed sinced moving here most people who live here are phasinated by space also.. i have a feeling part of hat reason because you can go out your back door and by the naked eye see some cool stuff.. unlike if you were in the city were all the light pilution makes it next to impossible to even see a simple star..

well i have my doctors tomorowo.. my leg is swollen but i hope he will tell me i can be more active if i go easy. after all i have no plans on running the iron man race after all. laughs.

yeah my dogs were all acting the fool cause of the full moon.

it was so bright that night and the following night too.. i was flying my blade nano out side in the middle of the dark and had no problems. did not even crash.. after 4 battery's my eyes were hurting from the strain.. i tried to use the on board LED to help with orientation. haha.. but it was quite yard.. i was flying the nano out side dis morning too.. and i can say all the practice iv put in flying in a small space has paid off... flying the nano out side is stupid easy now after all the hours of flying circles and hovering in a very small room, with lots of things to crash into,, like the book case, and the back of my chair. heh.. i was starting to wonder if i was wasting my time or not but i can say it has been good practice. rock on.
 

Gorsky

Junior Member
@jhitesma, I recently bought my first Quadcopter and it's the Nighthawk Pro 280 RTF.

I've been able to go out and try it only twice since I got it.
The flight is smooth and I enjoy it.
I've tried the FPV, and it not usable.

I turn on the receiver I have (RC58-32CH)
Scan so it finds the proper channel automatically.
Finds it.
I get a nice almost clean video signal.
Well, it is clean, but when I move, it gets a bit noisy.
Very usable.

THEN, I fly out, and within 25 feet, I loose the video.

I've switched the power on the TX to 200mW.
I've manually selected the channel instead of scanning, it doesn't work.

What do you suggest I should try ?
I haven't touched the dip switch on the Quad to change the TX channel.
I'm not super at ease doing so as I have almost no electronic knowledge and even less about Quads in general.

Side note, I have bought a pair of new CPol antennas, didn't help.

Thanks in advance for any input, much appreciated !
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Trying some other channels would be a good first step. Though I've also heard that the stock camera is susceptible to noise like you're describing so a different camera would be the next thing I'd try.

2dogRC (who've been doing a lot of great community support for this quad over on RCGroups) has a Sony PZ0420 that's a drop in replacement with the same connector for about $35: http://www.2dogrc.com/sony-pz0420-700tvl-1-3-inch-ccd-video-camera-ntsc.html he's been flying that on his own 280 and loves it.

Most of the people I've heard reporting the kinds of issues you're having were able to solve them by swapping to a better camera. The stock camera just really isn't very good. The TX does seem to do well as long as you've got a RX that covers it which it sounds like you do.

So the cheapest/easiest thing to try is a different channel to see if you can find one that works better in your conditions. If that doesn't do it then a different camera would be the next thing I'd try.

Also, you mention that you have CP antennas - make sure to use them - the straight antennas are horrible on 5.8ghz. And make sure that your antennas are both polarized the same way. If they have a plastic cover over them pop it open (usually you can just pry them open...or crash a few times :D ) and make sure the RX and TX antennas both curve in the same direction when looking at them from the top. If one curves left and the other curves right then you're going to loose a LOT of signal right there. Also make sure that your antennas are the correct SMA or RP-SMA connector to match your TX/RX. The stock TX is SMA but boscam usually used RP-SMA. An SMA antenna won't fit on a RP-SMA connector...but a RP-SMA antenna will fit on an SMA connector but the center conductor won't make contact and it's effectively like running no antenna.

Hope that helps!
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Trying some other channels would be a good first step. Though I've also heard that the stock camera is susceptible to noise like you're describing so a different camera would be the next thing I'd try.

2dogRC (who've been doing a lot of great community support for this quad over on RCGroups) has a Sony PZ0420 that's a drop in replacement with the same connector for about $35: http://www.2dogrc.com/sony-pz0420-700tvl-1-3-inch-ccd-video-camera-ntsc.html he's been flying that on his own 280 and loves it.

Most of the people I've heard reporting the kinds of issues you're having were able to solve them by swapping to a better camera. The stock camera just really isn't very good. The TX does seem to do well as long as you've got a RX that covers it which it sounds like you do.

So the cheapest/easiest thing to try is a different channel to see if you can find one that works better in your conditions. If that doesn't do it then a different camera would be the next thing I'd try.

Also, you mention that you have CP antennas - make sure to use them - the straight antennas are horrible on 5.8ghz. And make sure that your antennas are both polarized the same way. If they have a plastic cover over them pop it open (usually you can just pry them open...or crash a few times :D ) and make sure the RX and TX antennas both curve in the same direction when looking at them from the top. If one curves left and the other curves right then you're going to loose a LOT of signal right there. Also make sure that your antennas are the correct SMA or RP-SMA connector to match your TX/RX. The stock TX is SMA but boscam usually used RP-SMA. An SMA antenna won't fit on a RP-SMA connector...but a RP-SMA antenna will fit on an SMA connector but the center conductor won't make contact and it's effectively like running no antenna.

Hope that helps!
 

jhitesma

Some guy in the desert
Mentor
Well, the co-worker who no-showed last week says he's up for flying this week for real...so finally got around to replacing the broken bolt from last Sunday's crash. That thing wasn't just sheared, it was bent as well, getting it out was tricky because it turns out the spacers between the AIO board and the arms are threaded...and the holes in the arms are so tight they're effectively threaded as well:

12085213_10153046025511805_837514426_o.jpg

Bad news is that makes getting a broken bolt out a real PITA.

Good news is it means taking the AIO board off is really easy because you just have to remove the 6 nuts and pull it off - the screws on the arms won't fall out. Last time I had the AIO off I thought I was just being careful and that was why they didn't fall off :) But since those spacers are threaded it's really easy to pull the board off and work on just one arm - the others are still held in place by the screw to the top section and the spacers threaded on the other two screws. Nice! It's a little touch but I really like it.

I also dig into my stash of bobbins and replaced the ones I lost on the mobius mount. Since I'm down to just one spare now I also finally added some string through the center of them so the mount can still pop-loose...but can't go very far. In theory. We'll see how it does when I actually crash next :D
 

Gorsky

Junior Member
Whoa, nice complete answer !
I followed your suggestion and changed the channels.
It seemed to work quite a bit better.
I was able to get some decent range out of it but it was so windy and I have less than 5 complete flights of experience, so I only flew out to like 150 feet, then somewhat crashed and that was it for my FPV test.
Flew the rest of my batteries in LOS.

Here are the connectors and the two antennas I've bought in the same package.
Just to make sure, all seems good according to your suggestions.

IMG_2678a.jpg IMG_2679a.jpg

Thanks a lot for your help, I'll let you know when the weather is better and I've tested it a bit more extensively.
I'm based in Montreal, Canada, and it's windy season for a good while, then replaced by cold winter.
So, yeah, it won't be the most comfortable timing to ride my quad, but I'll enjoy nonetheless.

;)