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Enforcing new laws at Flite Fest

#43
That video with their thoughts and direction along with a sense of frustration is extremely encouraging to me. I will subscribe to that channel and will follow their lead in communication with policy leaders. I think we should all subscribe as a show of support. I am hooked on building and flying and will continue one way or another.
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
#44
I have been pondering things since the statement was made we need to find a way to use their own rules against them.

My thoughts are.. If they want to treat us like REAL full scale aircraft with fees and transponders then I think its only appropriate that when we crash we get the same treatment.

Local police to preserve the scene, until NTSB can get there to do the full investigations. then the FAA makes a determination that the crashing is a normal part of our hobby and a no blame thing as long as their rules for flight have been followed. I would think after several hundred of crashes are reported and pushed to do the investigations local authorities as well as the NTSB will go SCREW THIS! change it all back. Thus putting the FAA against the wall for being totally asinine and mentally dysfunctional.
 

Flite Risk

Active member
#46
THE FOLLOWING IS A COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL WONDERING AND THINKING OUT LOUD,
Let's organize a protest civil disobedience of sorts.

It wouldn't even be breaking the law it would be more along the lines of a denial of service. Then again it really wouldn't be a denial of anyting.


Let's go somewhere we know "they" are watching; military base, Airport, Federal buildings, and with no airplane quad or a remote control vehicle in your car or truck, only your TX.


Turn on your radio put it on your dashboard and just drive around with it transmitting on 2.4. After enough time of seeing the frequency used but nothing in the air and no laws actually broken maybe they'll give up.


Or at least They'll go nuts looking for something that isn't there and realize they have more important things to do.


They are wasting our time why don't we waste theirs?

I know, turn the other cheek write your congressman, join AMA and all that nonsense but that feels like something we can actually do that somebody will notice. Maybe not the Talking Heads on the news but at the end of the day the Watchers will file reports and send those reports to their bosses who at the end of the month quarter or year will see a whole lot of time spent watching only to find nothing.


Then there's the people who will see you with an airplane at a park and will call the police.


For them we should all fly ornithopters for a couple of seasons, put binoculars on her necks and call ourselves bird watchers :)

I don't want to play games, I just want to fly but when you give me a problem I will think of a solution or something to do about it anyway, in addition to joining the AMA and writing my local government officials, the above is my next best idea.

You don't have to tell me that this wouldn't work all the time everywhere because they don't monitor 2.4 over 100% of the country, but for those sensitive places we can be sure they are watching we can protest. We were there first anyway.

It kind of makes me want to turn it up a notch and turn on my radio while driving around DC just to see what would happen and who is really watching. sure we can all guess Secret Service Homeland Security and all those usual suspects would come to say "hello".

THE FOLLOWING IS A COMPLETELY HYPOTHETICAL WONDERING AND THINKING OUT LOUD,

I don't suggest that we all do this but what do you think would happen if 200 of us showed up with our radios on our neck turned on and just walking around DC, down Pennsylvania Avenue and drove around the Pentagon?
 
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PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
#47
Messing around at airports probably isnt the best of ideas. That goes beyond the scope of FAA and into Homeland Security which is an entity you should never provoke and get on any of their lists. Under certain situations they have authority beyond authority.

Civil disobedience would be more along the lines of people uniting and having massive fly ins at local parks. If we do it in small numbers its easy to cover with local law enforcement. When it gets bigger then town cops and a few sheriffs or state police then they drop back into crowd control and not Gestapo mode. Just dont be the last to leave when its over or your easy pickins hehe.
 

basslord1124

Well-known member
#49
I haven't really been following the latest unfoldings of our current legislation and what's going on in terms of the "legal" side of things that affect our hobby. So thank you @PsyBorg for creating this thread.

I kinda feel like @MacClarkNC is with watching how recent laws and administrations have been jumping on our hobby in the most recent years while we are just now getting into it. I was into RC planes back as a teenager but never flew due to fear of crashing. So I quit, and about 2-3 years I joined back up and it's still been a slow process due to life things with our preemie daughter, etc.

First off, I think it's great that FT has developed a community channel. Good way to keep everybody informed as things happen.

I do think this is more to do about commercialization than hobbyists. Since the big companies have been announcing this big pipe dreams of drone delivery, the government probably felt the need to have to step in and get the airspace regulated to accommodate such a thing. I think the whole idea is pretty crazy myself, but to each their own. I do think there is a better chance of something like this within a bigger city and not as much in the rural areas.

As for us hobbyists, I think we all need to exercise common sense unless you do already. If there are full scale aircraft close to your flying area get out of the way or go fly somewhere else. And, if the time comes and we see that Amazon delivery drone entering your flying area, land or go fly somewhere else. Simple as that.

I kinda think that with the way the government and legislation works, I'm not too worried about Flitefest this year or these tags at this stage. Just b/c of a thing called time. It seems when certain things get implemented or talked about by the government and they act too fast to get it into effect, it backfires. And usually they spend a lot more time trying to clean things up. Not to get too political (I'm not a political person anyways), but there are some current things where this is true. And with this being a very new thing for the FAA/government and any supposed business trying to go along with this crazy drone delivery idea, there are just waaayyyy too many unknowns and gray areas right now. They have at least a small start with the registration side of things so I'll give em that.
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
#50
@basslord1124 The sad part mate is the government did NOT initate this to restructure the air space. They were lobbied HARD by Amazon, DJI, UPS FEDEX.

The pipe dream that is drone delivery is a fail out of the box. For them to make enough deliveries to be cost effective they would have to mandate a fair amount of deliveries be done this way. For myself and many Flite Testers excessive shipping costs is a non starter. These drones arent cheap nor is the support equipment that is / will be needed. When it starts it will have a very short life span as it will be too expensive to support itself. Not to mention they shot themselves in the foot from the start spreading panic over our toy drones. To many people will NEVER go for these things flying over head on a daily basis. They have been worked into a frenzy about our toys and think the week end noise is bad. They wont stand for it on a daily basis and towns will end up banning over flights.

The only thing this does do of value is open up the door for baby steps into low altitude short hop aerial taxi services. And again the general population wont go for all the noise.

This is one of the directions I think we should take to defend ourselves. If this looks like there is no out for us then we need to work on gassing the general population up against them as they have us. Karma is a GREAT thing.
 

Merv

Well-known member
#51
I no longer believe the video that I referenced earlier in this thread is accurate. I believe the FAA changed the rules after that video was posted in November 2019. At this point what Josh Bixler said about the phone app is a pipe dream.

I encourage you to watch Bruce Simpson video from Xjet and support his efforts regarding the FAA.

 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
#53
I no longer believe the video that I referenced earlier in this thread is accurate. I believe the FAA changed the rules after that video was posted in November 2019. At this point what Josh Bixler said about the phone app is a pipe dream.

I encourage you to watch Bruce Simpson video from Xjet and support his efforts regarding the FAA.

This is why I posted Bardwells interview of the FPVFC.. Im not a fan of them but they put all the evil that was in writing and what it means to us in understandable terms. What Josh says is the interim transitioning to what ever the final outcome is. My issue is if you use that then you are already "tagged" so they will check you on the list of registered pilots, have your general location AND your cell phone info already in the data base.
 

Captain Video

Well-known member
#55
Check out Xjet's newest video on you tube. According to his research it seems the FAA may have created these new law without any data to support such laws. They may have violated th e rules in place to prevent rules to be made that don't have the data to support said rules. I may have stated it badly but he makes some good points.
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
#56
The easiest way to comment, is to piggyback onto the AMA's commenting scheme here https://www.modelaircraft.org/gov

You can copy and paste their template and if so inclined, edit same. I included the following addendum:

"Ideally, hobbyists should be exempt from these onerous regulations, and I urge you to create an exemption for hobbyists."
I think Ill be spending time mapping what to write, then MAYBE post in here for input first and wait till later in the time frame to see if FT does its own campaign to write in behind them. AMA's track record for what they did these last few times with our support really boned us and back fired on themselves when they were downgraded from being a CBO. Ill throw in with FT or go in by myself before Ill do that AMA thing.
 

Captain Video

Well-known member
#57
Ya know the side effect of the impending, looming RC flight law and FF'20? I am normally planning what combat plane and mods to make it nearly indestructable. The FAA as really taken "the wind frombeneath my wings" and the drive to fly and build. I know it is stupid but its the truth. I will still do it but I lack the motivation to get started. Anyone else?
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
#58
I no longer believe the video that I referenced earlier in this thread is accurate. I believe the FAA changed the rules after that video was posted in November 2019. At this point what Josh Bixler said about the phone app is a pipe dream.

I encourage you to watch Bruce Simpson video from Xjet and support his efforts regarding the FAA.

Bruce is funny, he has a place in the hobby.. Sticking his nose into American issues by trying to get a bunch of people backing him wont help us. It will probably in fact do the opposite. He has already pissed off his own government where they dont bother with him. We dont need him stirring the pot here with the FAA. This is a ploy to get him more subs and followers as he KNOWS he would have ZERO effect on the FAA NOT being a citizen.

Some of his ideas and thoughts are spot on and should be considered. However with his track record with politicians and officials in his own country I really hope he keeps his nose out of our fights here.
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
#59
Ya know the side effect of the impending, looming RC flight law and FF'20? I am normally planning what combat plane and mods to make it nearly indestructable. The FAA as really taken "the wind frombeneath my wings" and the drive to fly and build. I know it is stupid but its the truth. I will still do it but I lack the motivation to get started. Anyone else?
The hobby is done mate Its just on the FAA's time table. The only way to adjust that course is to go to our representatives and put pressure on them to speak up for us to save their own butts come November election time. The FAA will not even bother with most of our pleas. they have already shown their stripes by back dooring a proposal that would never pass on its on merit. They have already made promises of keeping the hobby in tact then changed up the proposals to phase it out over time. they know they have full control and are already bought and paid for. the only way to stop that is to go thru congress and dispute the legality not only of the proposals but how they were passed into law by circumventing normal procedures.

We, Flite Test, the AMA and any other groups can petition and write up support pleas to get our hobby back and it will do nothing if we aim at the FAA. We have to go after our representatives in the house and senate if we have any chance of stopping this. Once its all in place getting it repealed will be even harder
 
#60
So what then is Bixler doing in this video?


To me it looks like he received FAA approval to fly from his phone app. I suspect he could have done it just as easily from his home. I suspect this flying site was given instant FRIA approval.

I agree with @sprzout, it ALL depends on how easy it is to get FRIA approval. If it is as easy as Josh makes it look, then there is not a problem. If it is near impossible, then we are indeed in trouble.

Lets get more information before we go DEFCON 5.

Edit: I no longer believe this video is accurate. I believe the FAA changed the rules after tis video was published in November 2019
how annoying