[HELP] First QuadCopter

Dylanosaurus · Jun 4, 2014

tigert10 · Jun 4, 2014

Yep. This looks like a good list...no red flags jump out to me. I am assuming you have a charger and a transmitter

Some things you may not be thinking of are:

The kk2.1.5 is the newest version of the KK2.0. You may want to do some reading and consider going for that board instead of the 2.0.

Vibration dampening. You need to think through how you are going to minimize vibration. The foam "box" that the kk2 ships in is a good start, but do some reading on vibration dampening, which may include velcro, sticky hands, silicone tubing, or moongel. But it is a MUST for getting solid performance from the quad...especially since the arms on the Talon frame are carbon fiber.

Prop Balancer. Again this is all about vibration. Get a good prop balancer (if you don't have one) it will make a huge difference in the performance of the flight controller by reducing vibrations.

Extra Battery. You will never regret having too many batteries. You will probably get between 6-8 minutes of flight time with about an hour to recharge. In my experience, if I am going to get all set up (and travel some place to fly) I want to be able to get my "money's worth" of flying time. So, consider starting with at least two batteries (but I think three is even better).

Extra props. Consider getting at least two sets of extra props. There is nothing worse than not being able to fly because you are waiting for the mail to come with new props.

Better props. The BIGGEST performance enhancement to my quads has been APC props. I have tried lots of props including carbon fiber, but the best I have found are the APC multirotor props. They are awesome. A bit more expensive, but a HUGE improvement. So, consider learning to fly on the cheap props, but when you get a bit of experience throw on some higher quality props and you will be AMAZED at the difference in performance!

Good luck!

Greg2B · Jun 4, 2014

It looks like you have everything you will need as far as parts. The only thing I will say is you might want to get a different board then the kk 2.0. It's not in stock and I don't think it will ever be back in stock on HK since there is a newer version. I would get the kk2.1.5, it's loads better then 2.0 (I started with them and still have both of them still). You might just have to do a deeper google search for them if HK doesn't have them.

My second thought is, which may get echoed from more experienced people, is that frame seems a bit much for a first quad build. I would go with something cheaper and easier to replace when you crash. Granted the HK site seems like it has replacement parts but stocking and waiting will kill you if/when you crash and have to wait for parts. Even if you don't want to build your own frame(like me ) there are other frames out there that can take a decent amount of damage and are easier replace for a first quad build.

If you have a lot of flying experience already then crashing may not be as much an issue but it seems like it's something that you always need to keep in mind.

I'm sure some one with more knowledge will chime in with more details about your specific build.

Craftydan · Jun 4, 2014

Yes.

Props are a little big for those motors (but not intollerable), and you may need screws, velcro straps, and foam tape to mount things, but what's not there can be procured locally almost anywhere in the globe.

Do be aware, you can't order form more than one warehouse in a single order -- you'll likely have to split it up amongst at least 2 orders.

When it comes assembly and setup time, swing by with some pics of your progress (or questions if you have any).

BTW welcome to the forum!

Dylanosaurus · Jun 4, 2014

@Tigert10 Thanks for your answer and advice!! And I will certainly keep those tips in mind!

@Greg2b I want that nothing breaks thats why I buy an expensive frame?

@Craftydan What props you recommend me? and hmm that """" those 2 orders. But is not a big deal & Thanks!!

PS: Can somebody add me on skype? If i need help etc... SkypeName: dylan.temmerman1
and should this drone better than a AR DRONE 2.0 ? ( http://ardrone2.parrot.com/ )

#EDIT:

is this the board? : http://hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/__54299__hobbyking_kk2_1_5_multi_rotor_lcd_flight_control_board_with_6050mpu_and_atmel_644pa.html

Craftydan · Jun 4, 2014

yup, that's the board . . . and at the international warehouse too.

a 1200-ish KV motor on 3S is goign to lean closer to a 8-9" prop . . .so either a 8x4.5" or 9x4.7" prop will do (the second number -- the pitch, isn't as criical, but the lower the better, and you'll want under 5)

BTW, the frame may or may not survive well, but unless you've got gobs of experience flying large multirotros you *will* break props, and *A LOT* of them. buy at least 4 complete sets now, and think about more. It STINKS to be grounded, waiting a week for shipping becasue you just broke your last prop.

edit: and that is a pretty frame . . . but you will break it. I'm not saying don't buy it -- it's a good frame at a good cost -- but while CF flies nice and stiff, it'll shatter on the first HARD impact . . . and it will happen sooner rather than later.

Going with a fiberglass frame or a DJI flamewheel clone, might be a better place to start, but it's your money. if you do opt for it, plan on taking it VERY easy with the flying and learn as slowly as you can tollerate -- that will push the broken booms closer to "later".

Dumpster Jedi · Jun 4, 2014

It will break. It will.

My first build was on an HK X550 frame, which actually measures 600mm. Now, 600mm doesn't sound "big", but when you're trying to get your head around everything else at the same time, smaller is better. The larger framed quad won't be as fast to react as the distance between the "pivot point" (center of mass) and the rotors is greater. A 90-degree change in angle to the horizon on a 550 vs. a 250 is still 90 degrees, but the distance the rotors had to travel to make the same move on the larger frame has doubled, which results in a more sluggish, "slower" feel. Which sounds a lot better than it actually is, let me tell you.

In the end, I pretty much destroyed my large frame learning to fly with it. I'd crash it every time I attempted to fly it, I just couldn't get the settings high enough to make that big bastard move the way I needed it to when things got squirrelly, leading to a great many bent booms, broken props and motor mounts since it would usually meet the ground at an angle greatly deviating from the horizontal. I wrote off a lot of my issues to lack of experience only to find that pretty much all of them went away when I went to 450mm and 400mm frames.

You can get a large frame to fly well, but the motors and props need to be suited to that type of application or you will likely have problems with stability and sluggish performance. And the propwash issues, UGH. I couldn't drop 10 feet of altitude on the big frame without it wanting to get out of control and flip. The small(er) ones have no problem at all cutting throttle and descending in their own turbulence.

My two cents. Your mileage may vary.

FinalGlideAus · Jun 4, 2014

I can only echo Crafty's thoughts. Look at smaller props and consider a more durable frame better suited to learning. I would think 9x4.5 props would work nicely on those motors but all that said, I would be looking at a copter with simple wooden arms. Wood is cheap and easy to replace. You will break things while learning.

Greg2B · Jun 4, 2014

I think everyone else has cover the frame issue pretty well, much better than I could have, but my thoughts as new flyer and builder is crashes will happen and stuff will break. However with my two 250 frames I've yet to had either of my frames break.

They are made with ABS plastic 3D printed and take a pretty tough beating. I've broken a motor before even chipping the frame, granted I'm flying over grass, but I've had some hard descents on concrete and was still able to keep flying. One of them is fold-able and I've clipped trees and branches and the arm just pushes in and I can pull it out and keep flying. I now understand why everyone likes David's Tri-Frame

If you have a limited amount of space that you will be flying in smaller is better and you can always build a bigger one later and transfer some of your gear if you want.

Also the AR drone look cool if you just want to fly and take video, though you might want to wait for the new quad comingout, but if you want to fly and have fun there are alternatives.

My thoughts

Dylanosaurus · Jun 5, 2014

So 9X4.5 props are good? I Can't find them in the shop there are to many different props idk which one I should take...And yes Frames will break i'm a beginner so...everybody says that I have to buy a cheap frame?

So may be i should buy a cheap frame and when I can fly, then buy a expensive frame? but can I loosening the parts?

Sorry for my horrible English

EDIT:

btw, do I need this?
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/store/uh_viewItem.asp?idProduct=10414

cranialrectosis · Jun 5, 2014

If you are going with Simon K escs I see no use for the ESC programming card.

Greg2B has a great point. He is flying tiny little copters that crash with little inertia and probably weigh 500 grams or less in the air. As a result, his crashes don't hurt. Like Cyberdactyl said, 'it's like an ant falling out of a tree. There just isn't enough inertia to harm anything'. Seriously consider a Knuckle H Quad built from wood that you can get from the local hardware store so that WHEN you destroy it, you can fix it quickly and cheaply.

Tiny little copters can be harder to control. Wide, slow copters (400-500mm) made of wood running 1200-1500kv motors spinning 8045 rotors are a simple, forgiving, cheap place to learn. You WILL crash and you WILL break your copter.

Save the expensive pre-fab frames for later when you can fly with confidence (unless you can already fly with confidence).

Smaller motors with smaller rotors spin faster and tend to cause less low frequency vibration. This makes the copter simpler to build, maintain, fly and tune. Longer rotors take more time to balance and balance is more critical the longer the rotor.

Tritium · Jun 5, 2014

There is one CF quad frame on the market with a Lifetime Transferable Warranty. Break any part except for the protection plate and get a free replacement. Warranty good even if the frame is purchased from another person used.

Thurmond

Craftydan · Jun 5, 2014

Very true, but the Armattan CF 226 is a VERY small frame (226mm) designed to be a screaming racing class miniquad, being sold as "unbreakable".

Gushy reviews aside (Armattan does make pretty frames) there seems to be a logic gap for me: If someone were to want a performance racing quad, they should have the pre-requisite skill to control a more sedate quad, and then, every gram counts. Very pretty build and a good price, but IMO, overbuilt.

(In all fairness, I say this as I wait for spare CF props to arrive via mail so I can fly again . . . Dang you FGA for talking me into trying HQ props!!!)

It *could* be built underpowered/underproped, but with the designed power system, that frame is NOT for a beginner. Yes, unbreakable is nice, but an unbreakable frame is no consilation after it goes caffiene-fueled-hyper-squirrel into the ground and destroys motors, battery, and control board. only the arms and center piece are covered under warranty.

Tritium · Jun 5, 2014

Yes that little quad can be a mighty handful for an experienced pilot. I fly mine on 2S for a gentle experience. 3S= Fast. 4S= Rocket Ship. Chris is seriously considering offering the warranty on all his CF frames.
I have 5 wood frames I need to get rid of since I grew tired of broken frame parts. Wood is GREAT for a beginner though since repair is so cheap. It is also great to try out new frame designs on the cheap as well.

Thurmond

BankNYank! · Jun 5, 2014

I agree with everyone else. Get a cheap frame first! And wood is the best.

I just scratch built my first "real" multirotor. Take a look at my build thread here and take a look at this post for a list of most everything I used to build it. Here is a post with links to most of the stuff I ordered for my build.

Hope this helps!

FinalGlideAus · Jun 5, 2014

Craftydan said:
Very true, but the Armattan CF 226 is a VERY small frame (226mm) designed to be a screaming racing class miniquad, being sold as "unbreakable".

Gushy reviews aside (Armattan does make pretty frames) there seems to be a logic gap for me: If someone were to want a performance racing quad, they should have the pre-requisite skill to control a more sedate quad, and then, every gram counts. Very pretty build and a good price, but IMO, overbuilt.

(In all fairness, I say this as I wait for spare CF props to arrive via mail so I can fly again . . . Dang you FGA for talking me into trying HQ props!!!)

It *could* be built underpowered/underproped, but with the designed power system, that frame is NOT for a beginner. Yes, unbreakable is nice, but an unbreakable frame is no consilation after it goes caffiene-fueled-hyper-squirrel into the ground and destroys motors, battery, and control board. only the arms and center piece are covered under warranty.

Do I detect a slight hint you're enjoying the extra performance of the HQ's??

Feng at HQ Prop is bringing out colored nylon and colored glass/nylon props shortly which will be a bit more durable. Soma also informed me that he is awaiting new batch of props with a new carbon blend which is denser and should be more durable again.

Of course you know the easy answer is just not to crash...

Craftydan · Jun 5, 2014

FinalGlideAus said:
Of course you know the easy answer is just not to crash...

Ha! What's the fun of that?!? If I wanted to take it easy and make sure I didn't crash, I'd leave my batteries at home!

Dylanosaurus · Jun 6, 2014

soo..which props do I have to use?

cranialrectosis · Jun 6, 2014

You want an 8" or 9" rotor for this motor. Learn on the cheap 8045 rotors like these and buy a wad of them.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/...F_Props_2pc_CW_2_pc_CCW_Rotation_Orange_.html

Craftydan · Jun 6, 2014

for now, stick with nylon or ABS props -- 9x4.5 will do just fine.

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