Super Stol Prototypes

[the rc project]

I like building prototype and experimental planes from history and i stumbled upon a picture of a dornier do 31 VTOL cargo plane and it got me looking at the dornier company. although i would love to build a do 31, the VTOL programming is beyond me.... however i was looking at some other stol concepts from the company and came across an earlier design, the Do 29. there is not too much info other than some VTOL articles. so i figured this was a good project for me to undertake. i decided to do some testing on my timber x. did a little bit of mixing and this is what you get. flite test 1806 motors and ill be starting them on 2 cell to help me not kill the plane instantly. they are mounted right in the the flap so i will definitely be testing the stock MG servos in a Timber X. BUT THENNNNN i saw a a video of the Ryan VZ-3 Vertiplane!

after ive had some fun with the timber i will be using those 1806's to attempt a vertiplane. NOTE: my goal isnt to achieve VTOL. i want to see how close i can get using traditional RC TX RX. AKA HOW SLOW CAN YOU GO and just demonstrate this technology cause it’s cool

 

[the rc project]

Another shot of the vertiplane test craft!

 

[the rc project]

Do 31
This would be awesome as an rc but soooo many challenges!

 

[L Edge]

Very interesting project. Hope you are doing some video to show us? Could you also explain your setup with the Timbre X?

 

[the rc project]

Anyone know anything about wing loading, there is too much contradictory stuff because the size of the model varies. I’ve got a 126sq in of wing area and 400grams(14.6 oz) flying weight. This gives a wing loading of about 16 oz per square foot. So for a plane this small and pitchy, does it need to be lighter? I’ve seen forums on rc groups that say 17 oz per sq ft is a warbird but others that say 15 is a trainer. Even saw someone say edfs jets often have wingloads over 30 oz per sq ft! Where is the truth I gotta know!

 

[Pieliker96]

Anyone know anything about wing loading, there is too much contradictory stuff because the size of the model varies. I’ve got a 126sq in of wing area and 400grams(14.6 oz) flying weight. This gives a wing loading of about 16 oz per square foot. So for a plane this small and pitchy, does it need to be lighter? I’ve seen forums on rc groups that say 17 oz per sq ft is a warbird but others that say 15 is a trainer. Even saw someone say edfs jets often have wingloads over 30 oz per sq ft! Where is the truth I gotta know!

Cube loading is generally a more useful metric as it's less affected by scale. For the numbers given it's ~17, which is reallly high. I'd recommend more wing area or less mass or both.

 

[the rc project]

Very interesting project. Hope you are doing some video to show us? Could you also explain your setup with the Timbre X?

I haven’t taken any video, maybe I will try to get some together of the testing I’m doing on video. As for the setup of the timber, I’ve plugged the escs in the gear channel and set some mixes with the throttle to mirror it on the gear channel(if you try this be really careful this is how you chop fingers up, throttle cut will not work on the flap mounted motors) I have yet to fly it as I wanted to use the motors and esc for the vertiplane test craft. But I did leave the mounting hardware on the timber to try it this spring. I just thought the vertiplane is less risky(not afraid to crash a scratch build) I will definelty be trying it and maybe build a plane with the flap mounted motors as the only propulsion!

 

[the rc project]

Cube loading is generally a more useful metric as it's less affected by scale. For the numbers given it's ~17, which is reallly high. I'd recommend more wing area or less mass or both.

Hmm cube loading eh.. to google! I was thinking it was far to high as well, thanks! I’m still going to put a 3s in and try it! But I will build a bigger and lighter v2. Cheers

 

[the rc project]

Can’t believe I forgot to post this, Dornier do 29. The inspiration of the timber with “flaperonermoters”(I’m patenting that term)

 

[the rc project]

More vz-3 action any fancy ideas to actually extend the wing like the full scale?

 

[the rc project]

I’ve been doing some more research, some of the 50s and 60s planes are soo cool, I don’t have enough time to build them. But just to give some reference on what this plane had to be to fly, it’s gross weight was just over 2600 lbs and boasted a 1000hp lycoming, a Cessna 182s weigh 3100lbs (approx) with 230hp! The Vz-3 was a beast for such a little plane. I read an article from a guy who worked on it.
https://www.historynet.com/stol-testbed.htm
The Vertiplane was a super-lightweight aircraft—the engineers nicknamed it the “Reynolds Wrap Special.” There were only about a dozen men on the project, all seasoned aircraft builders, the best in the business, and eager to teach me. Even though I had nine years on the flight line, I had never constructed an airplane other than models as a kid. My first job on the Vertiplane was manufacturing the wing with the help of Ray Palmer, an experienced aircraft builder.Other groups of two built the other components. I was surprised to see that, except for being made of aluminum, it was in many ways like building a model airplane.

Alright I should probably keep mad scratch building right?
I have a 3s 800mah I will pickup tomorrow for some more power, and I’ve started a second slightly bigger but hopefully way lighter. I will post some pics of when it’s done

 

[timshotts]

I like where you're going with this project. Did you find the https://history.nasa.gov/SP-3300/ch8.htm ? The DO31 and VZ3 are listed among others. One of the solutions to the pitching problem was solved with a variable pitch tail rotor on the LTV XC-142. Good luck!

 

[the rc project]

I like where you're going with this project. Did you find the https://history.nasa.gov/SP-3300/ch8.htm ? The DO31 and VZ3 are listed among others. One of the solutions to the pitching problem was solved with a variable pitch tail rotor on the LTV XC-142. Good luck!

thanks man, awesome research article. as i understand, the way i have approached this project vtol is definitely out of the question... but i have done some hops with the new 3s where the plane takes off in a few feet at a steep rate. there are going to be some MAJOR adverse yaw issues.... i will try to set up differential thrust to hopefully give me more control. as of right now i'm not sure where this project is going (i see bits of foam in the future) but i'm glad you're enjoying. it's really a shame it's far too windy to fly a 400gram plane right now but maybe tomorrow. i think once the vertiplane is out of my system i will revisit the timber with flaperonermotors and maybe build a Do 29

 

[the rc project]

Version 2 vertiplane beside v1, much longer chord, under camber, larger tail, and about 50 grams lighter than the first one(without electronics). I’ve also made the landing gear shorter to try and “seal” the flow. With version 1 I could put it on the scale and throttle up with the plane against a wall(i know I know probably not accurate). The scale would read about 150grams less at full throttle so I want to see if closing the gap from the wing to the ground helps create more vertical thrust. I know if I’m theory if it did make enough to lift vertically I don’t have an RCS system like the real one, so it would be short lived. However I think if I can get the vertiplane to fly without the flaps Down then it’s a success, if I can get it to climb at a very steep rate, not pointing the nose up but using lift from the wings then I would be incredibly happy. As far as I’m concerned the nature of an RC model like this is just too difficult to fly to be fun but it’s the testing and learning of the concepts that’s fun for me.

Edit:differential thrust set up on version 1!

 

[the rc project]

Well a bit of mixing with the radio and I got the differential working, got to take it out to the park and it flew!!!! I was able to fly a few circuits and then proceeded to “land” gracefully on the nose and left wing,(it stalled the second I tried to flare) it’s plenty fixable but I think version 2 will be far more controllable so I’ve started moving the electronics over, looks like I’ve saved around 45grams on v2 (give it take tolls probably take 10 more grams of glue just to finish it) but it’s got a much larger wing and tail.
On version 2 I’ve also made the props spin outwards so that when I give differential the torque helps roll the same direction(at least I think this is the right way)

 

[ergomir]

Wow, interesting matter!, I always feel some kind of weird attraction to this kind of flight.
Ouchh sorry for that last hard landing.
I guess some kind of assisted control surfaces will help. (one guy once put a EDF inside a plane just to blow air over the ailerons, but doesn´t works according to him)
My only approach to this was "by accident" with my first twin engine.
You can see here in the video:

 

[the rc project]

Well I’ve moved the electronics to the new airframe, it’s far cleaner install on the escs and servos. Also I can fit 6inch props on this one. It weighs 400 grams so it’s only 20 grams lighter but bigger. Winter wind is the biggest battle I have, it’s a waiting game now

 

[the rc project]

Very interesting project. Hope you are doing some video to show us?

Do I have to upload the videos to YouTube to get them on on the forum or is there another way? I’d love to show how this plane taxis and takes off. With the flaps sealed it’s does some super slow takeoffs.

 

[NickRehm]

the VTOL programming is beyond me....

I thought the same, then wrote a simple to understand flight controller for people just like us: https://forum.flitetest.com/index.p...no-flight-controller-and-stabilization.65261/

Consider adding some stabilization best of luck with your project!

 

[the rc project]

I thought the same, then wrote a simple to understand flight controller for people just like us: https://forum.flitetest.com/index.p...no-flight-controller-and-stabilization.65261/

Consider adding some stabilization best of luck with your project!

Believe it or not I’ve actually built a drehmflight board.... the construction of stuff is not difficult but the programming just is. Receiver setup was just about where I realized I’m probably in too deep. Never powered up the board. Still have the one built and parts for 1 more to be made if I ever figure it out.