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Another Noob Help Thread.

S

Spook_

I've messed it up...again
So I've read through many of the threads on here regarding noobs and your first multirotor. With my birthday coming up I figured it'd be a nice present to myself to buy and take my first step into the world of multirotors. Only problem being there is a ton of information out there an I'm a bit overwhelmed. I'm looking for a multirotor (tri, quad, hex doesn't matter) that will be "noob" friendly (I have a blade 130x and am competent flying it if I do say so myself :cool:) but will also allow me to fpv when I get the funds but also wont limit me as I grow in skill. I have a DX6i and Phoenix Flight sim and would prefer not to spend over $300.

All Input is appreciated!
 
Twitchity

Twitchity

Senior Member
For the quality/price point I think the EMAX 250 Pro kits are one of the better deals on the market right now and you can use 6" rotors. There are a few retailers that sell a complete kit (minus the FC and receiver) for around/under $200.

You could also go the route and pick the parts individually and build a copter to your exact specifications. If you go with a Chinese knockoff frame, just be careful on the quality of the Carbon Fiber they use as sometimes its hit or miss if you get a nice one. The good thing about the EMAX kit is you know what you're getting, and the price isn't that much more than a Chinese knockoff.

I absolutely love my mini quad and tri and have no desire to get anything larger in the near future. These mini quads can take a beating and keep on going where the larger ones may be more prone to breaking an arm. Typically with the minis you'll just replace a prop(s) and be back in the air. Check out jhitesma's thread on the EMAX 250 to see if it's something you'd be interested in. http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?12207-EMAX-250-Pro-FPV-mini-build-(with-Naze32-GPS-experiments). For the quality and price you can get a full kit (I've seen kits with EMAX 2204 motors, not 1806's for right around $200), I don't think you can go wrong.
 
S

Spook_

I've messed it up...again
Twitchity said:
For the quality/price point I think the EMAX 250 Pro kits are one of the better deals on the market right now and you can use 6" rotors. There are a few retailers that sell a complete kit (minus the FC and receiver) for around/under $200.

You could also go the route and pick the parts individually and build a copter to your exact specifications. If you go with a Chinese knockoff frame, just be careful on the quality of the Carbon Fiber they use as sometimes its hit or miss if you get a nice one. The good thing about the EMAX kit is you know what you're getting, and the price isn't that much more than a Chinese knockoff.

I absolutely love my mini quad and tri and have no desire to get anything larger in the near future. These mini quads can take a beating and keep on going where the larger ones may be more prone to breaking an arm. Typically with the minis you'll just replace a prop(s) and be back in the air. Check out jhitesma's thread on the EMAX 250 to see if it's something you'd be interested in. http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?12207-EMAX-250-Pro-FPV-mini-build-(with-Naze32-GPS-experiments). For the quality and price you can get a full kit (I've seen kits with EMAX 2204 motors, not 1806's for right around $200), I don't think you can go wrong.
Click to expand...

http://shop.multirotorminis.com/EMAX-250-Pro-Mini-Quad-Bundle-E250ProMiniQuadBundle.htm

Is this a solid kit? I'm not afraid of soldering so if it would be cheaper to get the frame and parts seperatly I'd be fine with that. I saw your thread on the mini tri and thought that was quite interesting it did sound like it's for a much more advanced pilot. You really seem to be a huge contributor to the forms here and I'm glad you responded. What kind of speeds can this emax reach if I were to race it against a couple of my friends is it a competent performer?

Thanks for your help.:D
 
Twitchity

Twitchity

Senior Member
Spook_ said:
http://shop.multirotorminis.com/EMAX-250-Pro-Mini-Quad-Bundle-E250ProMiniQuadBundle.htm

Is this a solid kit? I'm not afraid of soldering so if it would be cheaper to get the frame and parts seperatly I'd be fine with that. I saw your thread on the mini tri and thought that was quite interesting it did sound like it's for a much more advanced pilot. You really seem to be a huge contributor to the forms here and I'm glad you responded. What kind of speeds can this emax reach if I were to race it against a couple of my friends is it a competent performer?

Thanks for your help.:D
Click to expand...

That's the kit I was referring to. It appears to be a lot harder to find that I originally thought... and I believe it's a fairly newer kit too. If you don't mind ordering off ebay here's a link to a kit with a CC3D FC and 2204 motors http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emax-Quadcopter-250-Frame-with-MT2204-Motor-12A-ESC-Carbon-Fiber-Prop-CC3D-/271736285903?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f44beaacf. It doesn't look like it has the EMAX branded ESCs though. Although it probably won't be as fast as a Blackout quad, I really think the limiting factor will come down to the pilot for the majority of it. The EMAX will be heavier, but you can get the whole kit for cheaper than just the Blackout frame. Later on if you're feeling comfortable with it's current setup, you can always throw on some 20A ESCs and 6045 props to increase the performance.

I don't have any experience with the CC3D, but even at $160 shipped that's a fantastic deal even if you go buy a new board. I'm pretty sure you can flash Cleanflight to the CC3D, but I'd definitely do more research on that. The only downside is if a part is defective, you'll have to contact the ebay seller...

I'd probably stay away from the tri, at least for now. The quads can take more of a beating so that would be my choice for learning to fly. I really wish I could suggest you a good FPV frame, but I don't have any experience with them. The ZMR250 seems to be a really popular frame for the budget minded crowd, while the Blackout seems to be a favorite for the performance/not so budget minded crowd. I feel either frame will fly the same (at least in the hands of you or me), so the components you choose will impact the performance the most. If I was looking for a cheap(er) FPV quad I would find an h-quad frame I liked that got good reviews, throw on a Naze32 acro, Cobra or SunnySky 2204 2300kv motors, RotorGeeks 20A ESCs (get one with the BEC, 3 without), 6030 or 6045 props (the one you feel most comfortable with) and call it a day. You will of course need the wires to connect everything together and any hardware to mount the FC, heatshrink for ESCs, zip-ties, battery connector, etc.
 
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S

Spook_

I've messed it up...again
Twitchity said:
That's the kit I was referring to. It appears to be a lot harder to find that I originally thought... and I believe it's a fairly newer kit too. If you don't mind ordering off ebay here's a link to a kit with a CC3D FC and 2204 motors http://www.ebay.com/itm/Emax-Quadcopter-250-Frame-with-MT2204-Motor-12A-ESC-Carbon-Fiber-Prop-CC3D-/271736285903?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3f44beaacf. It doesn't look like it has the EMAX branded ESCs though. Although it probably won't be as fast as a Blackout quad, I really think the limiting factor will come down to the pilot for the majority of it. The EMAX will be heavier, but you can get the whole kit for cheaper than just the Blackout frame. Later on if you're feeling comfortable with it's current setup, you can always throw on some 20A ESCs and 6045 props to increase the performance.

I don't have any experience with the CC3D, but even at $160 shipped that's a fantastic deal even if you go buy a new board. I'm pretty sure you can flash Cleanflight to the CC3D, but I'd definitely do more research on that. The only downside is if a part is defective, you'll have to contact the ebay seller...

I'd probably stay away from the tri, at least for now. The quads can take more of a beating so that would be my choice for learning to fly. I really wish I could suggest you a good FPV frame, but I don't have any experience with them. The ZMR250 seems to be a really popular frame for the budget minded crowd, while the Blackout seems to be a favorite for the performance/not so budget minded crowd. I feel either frame will fly the same (at least in the hands of you or me), so the components you choose will impact the performance the most. If I was looking for a cheap(er) FPV quad I would find an h-quad frame I liked that got good reviews, throw on a Naze32 acro, Cobra or SunnySky 2204 2300kv motors, RotorGeeks 20A ESCs (get one with the BEC, 3 without), 6030 or 6045 props (the one you feel most comfortable with) and call it a day. You will of course need the wires to connect everything together and any hardware to mount the FC, heatshrink for ESCs, zip-ties, battery connector, etc.
Click to expand...

The zmr frame seems to have really good reviews for being only $30ish the blackout quad h frame is $150 how much is a decent electronic package? After thinking about it more id much rather have a solid performer without worrying about fpv or not. I'd rather not deal with eBay for the very reason you mentioned. What do your frames run?:p
 
cranialrectosis

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
Twitchity builds premium frames for intermediate to advanced builders. His contributions to this forum are amazing.

I have 2 of his hexes, and his mini-tricopter. They are fun copters to build and fly but the smallness and advanced materials (CF and G10 instead of wood) makes for a pretty steep learning curve for a beginner.

I would recommend the FliteTest Electrohub or Knuckle H quad for a beginner. If you want a little more challenge, look at the BatBone tricopter.

The Altitude Hobbies Power Packs are a solid place to start for electronics. I have 2 of these flying today (BatBone and Knuckle H quad). They are simple and are commonly used by people on the forum so there is a ton of support. Learn to fly it with an 1800mAh lipo at least 35C and you can step up to a 2200 or 2570 later when you can handle the weight.

The KK2.1.5 is a solid flight controller that is simple to use and set up AFTER you flash it to Stevie's firmware (free upgrade). To flash you have to use Java an a USBASP, but if you have the tool and can use Java, the process is simple enough. If the KK2 doesn't turn you on, check out the Naze32 Acro.

A copter like this will be a 370 park flyer, not so small that it's twitchy and hard to build/fly and no so large that you will spend hours balancing motors and props. It will run on 8045 rotors and will lift a GoPro or do FPV if you want it to. These are simple to build and cheap to repair and the Suppo motors in the power pack are HARD to destroy.

Once you build and crash and rebuild one of these a few times, the Twitchity Hex, Acro Quad or Mini-Tricopter are all within reach.
 
S

Spook_

I've messed it up...again
cranialrectosis said:
Twitchity builds premium frames for intermediate to advanced builders. His contributions to this forum are amazing.

I have 2 of his hexes, and his mini-tricopter. They are fun copters to build and fly but the smallness and advanced materials (CF and G10 instead of wood) makes for a pretty steep learning curve for a beginner.

I would recommend the FliteTest Electrohub or Knuckle H quad for a beginner. If you want a little more challenge, look at the BatBone tricopter.

The Altitude Hobbies Power Packs are a solid place to start for electronics. I have 2 of these flying today (BatBone and Knuckle H quad). They are simple and are commonly used by people on the forum so there is a ton of support. Learn to fly it with an 1800mAh lipo at least 35C and you can step up to a 2200 or 2570 later when you can handle the weight.

The KK2.1.5 is a solid flight controller that is simple to use and set up AFTER you flash it to Stevie's firmware (free upgrade). To flash you have to use Java an a USBASP, but if you have the tool and can use Java, the process is simple enough. If the KK2 doesn't turn you on, check out the Naze32 Acro.

A copter like this will be a 370 park flyer, not so small that it's twitchy and hard to build/fly and no so large that you will spend hours balancing motors and props. It will run on 8045 rotors and will lift a GoPro or do FPV if you want it to. These are simple to build and cheap to repair and the Suppo motors in the power pack are HARD to destroy.

Once you build and crash and rebuild one of these a few times, the Twitchity Hex, Acro Quad or Mini-Tricopter are all within reach.
Click to expand...

I'm quite interested in tri's would you recommended the bat bone or David's newest tri frame? Also how does flying a mulitrotor compare difficulty wise to a cp heli?
 
cranialrectosis

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
Never tried a cp heli so I can't say.

I love my BatBone. I have not built a David W tricopter so my comparisons are speculation. I like the David W tail tilt mechanism better than the old style FT version. I think the David W frame is smaller so I would say the David W is a better solution until FT comes out with a new tail pivot and a smaller body.

For your first build, you don't want the smaller copter the David W allows you to build. David's copter allows you to go smaller later if/when you are ready to cut the booms down.

FT publishes the BatBone frame plans online for free so you can cut your own from plywood.

Both are fine copters by all accounts. I recommend you get the one that is aesthetically pleasing to you. I recommend the David W tail pivot regarless of which frame you buy.
 
Twitchity

Twitchity

Senior Member
I would say flying a multi in acro mode is similar to flying a CP heli, or at least the closest thing to it. I started off with a little CP heli and found multis a lot easier to fly, but that could have been from the experience I gained with the heli.

If you're looking for a cheap tri, CPO has some plans online you could look into as well. http://forum.flitetest.com/showthread.php?7492-CPO-135%B0-Tricopter-Design There should be a link to his site on that forum post, but it's blocked from my work computer (thankfully I can still visit FT :) ). I really like David's tricopter design and I was going to order the frame plates from FT but they were removed from the store. I have a slight form of OCD when it comes to symmetry and I wouldn't be able to stand the curves being slightly off from my cutting abilities so I searched around and found the CPO with straight lines :D

If you go the tricopter route I would strongly suggest you get the KK or mini KK board over a Naze32 or similar. I had built the CPO tri as my first scratch build and the KK board worked great with little to no fuss. I tried the Naze32 on my new CF mini tri and boy was it a pain to get adjusted, and it's still not flying as good as the KK board IMO (but that's because of my tuning ability). Cranial can attest to the headaches of a tricopter with Naze32 setup as he experienced the same problems I did.
 
S

Spook_

I've messed it up...again
Well, I think Ill go with a basic quad for my first multirotor. Here's my current list mostly thanks to @Twitchity

Frame: ZMR250 found here: http://www.banggood.com/H250-ZMR250-250mm-Carbon-Fiber-Mini-Quadcopter-Multicopter-Frame-Kit-p-933185.html

Motors: Cobra 2204 2300kv found here: http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=18_46&product_id=74

ESC's: Rotorgeeks 12A BLHeli ESC V4 found here:http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=34_43&product_id=125

FCB: Acro Naze 32 found here: http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=34_44&product_id=70 or here: http://www.multirotorsuperstore.com/flight-controllers/acro-naze32.html

What Else?
Any recommended receivers for a dx6i?
Any outstanding batteries for the price?

All Input and feedback is welcome!
 
cranialrectosis

cranialrectosis

Faster than a speeding face plant!
Mentor
Actually, I found setting up the Naze to be quite simple. Twitchity, Mustang and Codemonkey had already done all the real work. I just had to listen and do what they said to do. :)


I do concur that the KK2 is simpler to set up and get flying well if you can stand to install Java (ugh) on your computer. The KK2 is still (IMO) the simplest board to set up and configure. If Java is a deal breaker, the Naze will work quite well if you learn from the other builds on this forum.
 
Twitchity

Twitchity

Senior Member
I really like the lemon satellite receiver, and RotorGeeks has been one of the few places I can find them in stock http://rotorgeeks.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=34_61&product_id=54. It looks like with an update to Baseflight you only need the satellite receiver I linked to bind it to the transmitter through the Naze32. before you needed to buy the complete receiver and connect the satellite receiver to it before you could bind. The range on this receiver will probably be less than a full receiver, but I can't give it up due to it's small size.

Cranial linked the battery I'd suggest for this size quad, and it's the battery I run on both my tri and quad; it's a fantastic battery. When you go to order your battery, don't forget to order some wire, heatshrink, XT60 connectors to plug into the battery, velcro strap for the battery if you need one, any nylon hardware you might need to mount the FC (doesn't look like the kit comes with any), and heat shrink. I'm sure I'm missing something, or you may already have some of these items but that should get you well on your way.
 
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