Beginner - Multirotor vs Fixed wing/Plane

[natodemon]

Hi all,
I'm very new to the RC community and I need some advice. This question has probably been asked before but I couldn't find it with a search so here we go.

I am interested in joining the RC hobby, but I'm unsure whether to start with fixed wing aircraft or multirotors. My budget is limited so my first thoughts after some searching were to go with the cheaper to build plane, but after some more searching I feel that the mountainous, tree filled area I live in is not a good place to learn to fly a plane LoS. That's when I changed to looking into multirotors due to the much smaller space needed to fly them in, but they are apparently very hard to fly LoS and go much better with FPV - something that I am very much interested in, but it doesn't look cheap.

Living in Europe, especially a small Spanish island, things are hard to find and expensive to ship, so the two aircraft I have in mind are the FT versa wing and the rcexplorer Tricopter as I can scratch build them.

I apologise for the large post, but I thought it would be good to get all the information I can into one post to avoid repetition / time wasting.

Thank you in advance for any information

Natodemon

 

[eagle4]

hey mate, welcome to the forum and the hobby. be warned... it can get addictive

obviously where you can fly can be a strong factor determining which route you should take. you can easily fly a versa wing inside a football field if you have access to one.

if you actually have no decent space to fly a plane then it really limits your options so a multi rotor would be the way to go.

as for being cheap, a plane will be significantly cheaper. i built myself a tricopter recently and purchased the cheapest equiptment i could, without battery and receiver it was still about $85. ontop of that you'd need a transmitter and battery too (dont forget the battery charger)

so the price gets up there. if you're wanting to start with a plane, the ft flyer is a great starting off point, super cheap to get in the air. and flies nice and slow, great for a beginer. i still find launching flying wings a bit iffy. but having a plane you can throw like a ball makes launches easier. also as its a slow flyer you can fly it in a smaller space

but the versa wing is a great platform to fly too. nice and stable, and i think it looks awesome in the air.

so my suggestion would be really think about the spaces you can fly, and how much money you want to spend. I'm not sure what kind of budget you are on, but expect your first tricopter to cost you about $100+ just for the unit. battery charger and transmitter and all the bits and pieces you'll be needing weather you build a plane or tricopter.

its kind of a wishy washy answer, i know, but its up to you, you are the only one who can decide on what limitations will direct your choice.

I look forward to seeing what you end up building

 

[jhitesma]

First off I would NOT suggest the Versa as a first plane. Try the FT Flyer instead of if you go with a plane, much easier to built, fly and cheaper to replace since it's just one sheet of foam board. But it's still a blast to fly.

As for which is better...well. Personally I started all wrong I'd been building planes since I was young but couldn't afford RC gear so they were just free flight and I quickly got bored with them, I wanted to control them in flight! I eventually got some RC cars, boats and motorcycles and had a blast with them. I found that I never really had any major issues with orientation but a lot of my friends did when I let them try my "toys". But I still couldn't afford anything that flew and I really wanted to get in the air.

Then the WooWee dragonfly ornithopter came out for $50. I snatched one up. But wow, that thing was hard to control. My house wasn't big enough to fly it in and the weather here was very seldom calm enough to even think about flying it outside. It convinced me I wanted to fly more...but I still couldn't afford a real airframe. Then the airhogs micro copters came out...$12? How could I resist? But again couldn't fly outside and my house was too small and they really weren't very well engineered and only slightly controllable.

Sometime in there I bought a 4ch FM radio set off ebay because it was <$20 and I planned on using it to control a camera rig for kite aerial photography since I was making quite a few kites at the time and wanting to hang a camera from them. Never got the rig built, but the RC set gave me an excuse to build a Balsa glider when Make magazine released free plans for one. I fairly quickly learned that it was not a good entry level plane I'm still working up the guts to give it a 3rd flight almost 5 years later.

A few years later I found out about 4ch mini helis and grabbed a 9958, an accucel6, a handfull of lipos...and a few weeks later a 9x TX. I was hooked. Had a blast with that little heli (still have it too) but again my house was too small and it was often too windy to fly outside. So I quickly got frustrated. I also got tired of replacing the tail rotor motor every other week as I kept burning them out.

I ordered a v911 next and had some fun with it...but same problems with my house too small and our winds too persistent.

Then a perfect storm hit. I found the nutball on RC Groups and learned about FliteTest all at the same time I'd been following multis as well but had written them off as too expensive for the time being but knew they'd be affordable soon so I tried to keep up with what was going on with them. I built a nutball and smashed the heck out of it learning to fly it. Since I already had the 9x my costs were pretty low - just a few cheap servos, a blue wonder motor and the single most expensive bit...an RX.

I started building most of the FT planes as they were released and quickly fell in love with them...but still longed for a multi and missed the fun of the helis but couldn't afford a full size heli and didn't care for the limits of the mini's. Then I found out about the Syma X1 and that it was well under <$50 delivered and would work with my 9x! Ordered one that week.

I loved the x1 but much like the mini helis I quickly got frustrated with it being too big to fly in my house and too small to fly outside most days. I also for the first time found that orientation was sometimes an issue for me. Even with different colored props once that thing got up in the sky it was really easy to get confused about which way was which.

So I stuck with fixed wings awhile longer. Then finally this past November I figured out how I could build a "real" multi for less than $100 by using bits I had on hand to improvise a flight controller. My fixed wings have been sadly gathering dust since


Now...what were you saying about apologizing for a long post?


I guess my point is do what works for you. I wouldn't suggest doing things the way I did but I don't know that I'd call my story a cautionary tale either.

I say put your money into a nice radio that will work for whatever you want to do. Then build some cheap airframes and start flying. Buy a cheap quad like a Hubsan or a Syma to get a taste for multi flying and build an FT Flyer to get a taste for fixed wing. After a few flights with each you'll know which way you want to focus your funds towards getting deeper in the hobby.

 

[natodemon]

Hi Eagle4

Thank you for such a quick reply, I'm sure it can be very addictive that's why I've waited until the summer to begin looking into it. It was definitely the look that influenced my choice for the versa, but I have read on another thread as well that the flyer would be a much better beginner plane. I've got about &#8364;200 saved up (about $270) so that's a rough budget.

I will go on a bit of a scout out for places that I could possibly fly a fixed wing, but I'm in a bit of a far out village so no football fields.

Thanks again for the quick reply
Natodemon

 

[natodemon]

Jhitesma,
Gives a whole new meaning to long post
Thanks for the very detailed reply and it does sound like a good idea to get a radio and RX first and go from there. I was pleasantly surprised by how inexpensive components such as servos and even motors are online, I was expecting them to be much more than they are. I know I'm probably jumping into the deep end talking about it, but have you ever tried FPV? I'm what I guess you could call a technology geek and the idea of controlling a plane/multirotor from out of the LoS sound really quite fun

Thanks again for the reply
Natodemon

 

[frogman]

I have planes and tricopters. Tricopters aren't that bad LOS. Maybe I am a little unusual though. I have FPV gear and have tried flying FPV on my tricopters. I can't do it. I don't trust myself. I'm used to seeing it with my eyes. I use the FPV stuff to let other people help me line up a shot. I am determined to learn FPV this year. I am only using a monitor and not glasses so that may make a difference. I just have trouble with FPV. I am told if you keep moving then multirotor FPV is easier but I usually fly slow with my multirotors so it is sometimes hard to know when I am drifting.


Those are my thoughts on FPV. I just have trouble with it...but think it's totally cool.

 

[jhitesma]

I've just started down the FPV hole....though it's been something I've been wanting to do since before it was really even known as "FPV". I've been involved in radio a long time (got my ham license in 3rd grade) and much like RC flying was something I wanted to do for a long time but couldn't afford transmitting video was another...so putting the two together has been obvious to me for a long time but beyond my financial reach. I had to sate myself with more mundane crazy RF pursuits like attempting to send the first e-mail from a roller coaster in 1992 (my friend and I tested the theory but never had the guts to actually sneak our rig onto an actual coaster. We used an HP-48 calculator running a terminal program to interface with a battery powered TNC and a 5watt HT to send a packet message through a digipeater which passed it to a packet to email gateway running at my house. We were able to send test messages from some crazy places and our goal was to send one from the Magnum at Cedar Point Ohio...unfortunately we both chickened out when we made a trip and neither of us wanted to risk getting kicked out of the park for playing with a bunch of electronics on the ride.)

However I finally saved up enough to get myself a set of goggles for my birthday and a 5.8ghz Vtx/rx set and have been making my first steps into FPV and loving it. Unfortunately I don't have anyone to spot for me and that's resulted in nearly loosing my quad almost every time I've tried to fly it FPV so I'm making slow progress. Have a few people who've said they'll spot...but none have actually followed through yet.

FPV definitely changes things...it's a lot like learning to fly all over again and things are a LOT different. I'm still itching to get my FPV rig onto one of my fixed wings...just not enough time for all my crazy ideas now that I have a daughter to try and keep up with

 

[natodemon]

Wow sounds like you've been experimenting with radios for quite a while now! FPV really is something I want to try, cost permitting of course, but some basic setups don't seem to cost all that much, if you're using a monitor as even the lowest end goggles set you back at least $100 if I'm right.

I just had a look at some reviews and videos on the syma x1 quadcopter and wow can that thing do a lot for the price! Maybe I'll look into that before going full size. I had a look at the 9x radio seeing as that is the one you have and it doesn't cost too much if I've found the right one on hobby king, especially as its a 9 channel. I've heard 6 channel radios are good for beginners so would a 9 ch be overkill?

Natodemon

 

[stay-fun]

Beginners absolutely don't need more than 6 channels. Go for a DX6i! (or maybe an orange TX if you're low on budget)
My point of view: try one of those small quads from Horizon Hobby. Cheap, durable and (for beginners) a lot of fun. I bought one once to experience multirotors, but LoS flying got boring after two packs... I'm used to the crispness of collective pitch helicopters . I sold the MQx to a friend who was a beginner, and he loves it!

I think I would recommend the blade 200SR X with safe (oh crap-button) technology for a single rotor helicopter. Kinda pricey though, compared to a mini-quad or plane.

Yeah planes are fun, too! Definitely the FT flyer if you go that way

 

[ffschoblocher]

Beginners absolutely don't need more than 6 channels. Go for a DX6i! (or maybe an orange TX if you're low on budget)

I would have to disagree with this. I say get what you can afford. I went with a DX8 because of the ability of future use. I hate buying something and having to hold on to it or sell it when I advance in something. I'm a firm believer get what you can afford! You wont use it all right away but you will have it when you need it.

 

[stay-fun]

I would have to disagree with this. I say get what you can afford. I went with a DX8 because of the ability of future use. I hate buying something and having to hold on to it or sell it when I advance in something. I'm a firm believer get what you can afford! You wont use it all right away but you will have it when you need it.

I guess it depends. If you don't know for sure that you'll continue with the hobby, get something cheaper. There is always ebay to sell it later . A member at the club gave me the same advice: go with a 7-channel, although I needed only 6 channels for a helicopter. I started with a DX6i, and when it crapped out after 3 years I bought another one. Now I have a JR11X.

So many people, so many opinions. It's up to the TS to make his decision

 

[SGrog]

Welcome to the Forums natodemon!

I would actually start with asking: What do you intend to use the RC for? Taking breath taking videos of the island rim and mountains, going just above the tree tops (safely, and avoiding dangerous situations I may add), or gliding blissfully on a thermal on a bright sunny day with the sunlight gleaming off the water?

I recently got into Multirotors myself, and am having my H copter Maiden this weekend once I get my PID tuned on my board, but the satisfaction of scratch building anything is phenomenal! Just make sure to test with the blades off! The members of this forum are incredibly helpful, and knowledgeable, and honestly kinda made getting into the hobby a reality for me. And it is so addictive, I have plans for a Tricopter and a Hexacopter now. Haha.

I would say that the multirotor is a good starting platform, and has a lot of potential for upgrades (FPV, GPS, Gimbals, Anything you can think of really), But working with in your budget is key. The Fixed wing would be less expensive, and could be a good FPV platform, but flying LOS would be limiting, and maneuverability in the Z direction would not be as great. The multirotor on the other hand will be a little more expensive, but is also more maneuverable, and can be a total blast. I would also echo jhitesma in saying that investing in a good radio is key. I have a DX6I, and think it is great, it was what I could afford, and I dont regret it one bit, but I do wish I could have invested in a larger radio such as a 8 or even 10 channel radio. The suggestion of trying both fixed and a small multirotor is also a great one, people could persuade you one way or another, but ultimately it comes down to what you are comfortable flying, and what suits your needs for flying and personal style.

I hope that made some sense, and wasn't to repetitive to what others have said but good luck and welcome again!

-Sean

 

[jhitesma]

Personally I think the 9x is a great first radio - if you're a technical person. It's low cost but can do things that radios much more expensive can't....but only after you "fix" it. If you're not comfortable with opening your radio up and soldering to tiny pins on its main circuit board then the 9x probably isn't a good choice for you. If you are comfortable with that then the 9x is an outstanding radio that costs very little, is compatible out of the box with a lot of RTF mini heli's and quads, can use JR style modules so you can swap the RF module to use Spektrum, Futaba, LRS and just about any other RF system out there.

But out of the box the software on it is pretty lousy, there's no backlight, and the stock module isn't really removable since the antenna is connected to the radio and not the module. I was easily able to correct all of those shortcomings in an afternoon by doing some research while waiting for mine to arrive (and ordering a backlight when I ordered the radio for an extra $5.)

That's just me though and like I said I wouldn't suggest it to someone who isn't technically competent. The 9xr has better software, a built in programming port and a backlight...but no RF module so it's a bit more expensive to get started with and I'm hesitant to suggest it as a first radio as a result. IMHO the Spektrums are overpriced for what they are - good radios but I personally just can't justify their cost. The Orange radios I've heard so many mixed things about it's hard to make a general recomendation for or against them.

As SGrog says above a lot of it comes down to what you want to do. If you think you're going to stick with the hobby then putting money into a decent TX is a wise move at the start IMHO. If you're really not sure then a RTF setup with a functional minimal TX may be a better option to get your feet wet.

The x1 is a fun toy and I still have fun with mine...but I'm not sure I can really recommend it as a "first quad". It has no acro mode so it doesn't really give a full taste of what flying a "real" quad is like. But it will teach you the basics of getting around and keeping orientation - and it will take a beating and keep coming back for more. I've flown mine full speed into the side of my house more times than I can count and I'm still on the spare props that came with it. I did bend two prop shafts eventually but they were easy and cheap to replace. The stock controller works fine so for <$40 delivered (at least here in the US) you can have something to fly really quick and decide if you want to get further into the hobby. Stepping up to a 9x TX you loose the auto flip ability of the X1 - but you get much better range and slightly higher rates so you can fly it a bit more aggressively and start to have a bit more fun. Fairly quickly though you'll probably hit it's limits though.

If it's in your budget the Horizon Hobby Blade Nano QX is probably a better choice from what I've heard. It has a good stability mode for getting started...but also has a acro mode and supposedly flys a lot like a fullsize. They're not that expensive either at <$100 for a full RTF setup with TX.

 

[jhitesma]

Oh yeah...FPV on the cheap....

That was why I was able to get started with it. I already had a 7" monitor and a small "board cam" style camera I had bought cheap years earlier. So to get my feet wet all I needed was the vtx/rx setup and antennas. $55 for the tx/rx and $10 for some cheap CP antennas and I had something I could try.

It was enough to convince me to save up the money for goggles and a better camera

To be fair the biggest problem was the lens on my cheap camera, it was just too narrow of a field of view. $10 for a 2.8mm lens made a HUGE difference. And even a modern $15 CMOS camera has better picture quality than the nearly 10 year old cam I had on hand to start with.

But for me the monitor just didn't cut it. Even with a shroud around it it was just too hard to see except for just before sunset. But..I live in the desert and we get 360 days of sun a year and even the other 5 aren't what most people would consider overcast (our city actually ran a promotion 2 years ago advertising "Free board any day the sun doesn't shine" promising coupons for free meals to any hotel guests in town on days "the sun didn't shine". They ran it for a year and didn't give out a single coupon....IMHO there were a few days I wouldn't consider sunny since it wasn't out all day but apparently the local meteorologists disagreed with my call )

Plus, my monitor is nearly 15 years old and not high quality. (It was a Boeing reject for seatback display in an airplane that I got cheap from a salvage shop.)

Though now that I've upgraded to a better camera I have to say the picture quality on the monitor isn't that bad and spectators do enjoy it quite a bit. It just wasn't enough for me to feel safe using it to fly through though.

A good camera with a wide lens is far more important than goggles. But I find the goggles make FPV a lot more enjoyable for me.

 

[natodemon]

Welcome to the Forums natodemon!

I would actually start with asking: What do you intend to use the RC for? Taking breath taking videos of the island rim and mountains, going just above the tree tops (safely, and avoiding dangerous situations I may add), or gliding blissfully on a thermal on a bright sunny day with the sunlight gleaming off the water?

I recently got into Multirotors myself, and am having my H copter Maiden this weekend once I get my PID tuned on my board, but the satisfaction of scratch building anything is phenomenal!

Thank you all for the replies, I wasn't expecting anywhere near as many responses!

SGrog, you've really challenged me with that question... I'd say that my ultimate goal is to take some great videos and speed over the tops of trees (taking safety into account of course).

Having built a few computers over the past year I'm familiar with that feeling of satisfaction, and scratch building is definitely something I would like to do at some point, if not right at the beginning.

Right now radio wise I'm leaning towards what jhitesma is recommending, the 9x as it seems very good value for a 9ch radio

Thank you again for all the great information

Natodemon

 

[natodemon]

Oh yeah...FPV on the cheap....

That was why I was able to get started with it. I already had a 7" monitor and a small "board cam" style camera I had bought cheap years earlier. So to get my feet wet all I needed was the vtx/rx setup and antennas. $55 for the tx/rx and $10 for some cheap CP antennas and I had something I could try.

It was enough to convince me to save up the money for goggles and a better camera

To be fair the biggest problem was the lens on my cheap camera, it was just too narrow of a field of view. $10 for a 2.8mm lens made a HUGE difference. And even a modern $15 CMOS camera has better picture quality than the nearly 10 year old cam I had on hand to start with.

But for me the monitor just didn't cut it. Even with a shroud around it it was just too hard to see except for just before sunset. But..I live in the desert and we get 360 days of sun a year and even the other 5 aren't what most people would consider overcast (our city actually ran a promotion 2 years ago advertising "Free board any day the sun doesn't shine" promising coupons for free meals to any hotel guests in town on days "the sun didn't shine". They ran it for a year and didn't give out a single coupon....IMHO there were a few days I wouldn't consider sunny since it wasn't out all day but apparently the local meteorologists disagreed with my call )

Plus, my monitor is nearly 15 years old and not high quality. (It was a Boeing reject for seatback display in an airplane that I got cheap from a salvage shop.)

Though now that I've upgraded to a better camera I have to say the picture quality on the monitor isn't that bad and spectators do enjoy it quite a bit. It just wasn't enough for me to feel safe using it to fly through though.

A good camera with a wide lens is far more important than goggles. But I find the goggles make FPV a lot more enjoyable for me.

I have a few computer monitors lying around that I could connect an FPV Rx to with an adapter and make a DIY shroud. The weather is pretty sunny here most year round, but we do get some amazing storms and overcast skies are not an odd occurrence.

I would probably start the well proven way and go with a board cam and then maybe move on to a Mobius to record in HD at a future date.

You've all got me very excited about RC and right now I'm again leaning towards a multirotor (Tricopter) with a basic FPV setup. I've got exams coming up in a weeks time so I won't be able to go out get any of the components for at least a few weeks, but summer is just around the corner (although the weather has been trying to convince us otherwise )

Thanks again for sharing you're experiences

Natodemon

 

[jhitesma]

The big issue with using a computer monitor is it will go blue or black on a weak signal - having something that goes to static is MUCH better for FPV because you WILL get dropouts and with something that goes to static the image will recover quicker and even when it's not perfect at least you'll have something.

In fact when I first got my setup I forgot that the boscam instructions that come with the RX are incorrect about the dip switch settings for channels - so I had my TX and RX on different channels. I still got a signal...but it was weak and I couldn't go more than a couple dozen meters without loosing signal. And when I tried it on my TV I couldn't get ANY image at all even with the TX and RX just a few inches apart even though on my old 7" monitor that goes to static I was able to get a great image.


As long as you're able to solder a programming port onto the atmega chip, remove the antenna and remount it to the module, and install a backlight (which it sounds like you should be able to handle) the 9x is a great radio at a bargain price. I got to try a friends 9rx yesterday and I actually much prefer the feel of the 9x even though the 9rx has some nice improvements like the backlight and programming port being included. The 9x just felt more solid to me while the rx felt more toyish. But I know some people prefer the look and feel of the rx - personal opinion plays a LARGE role here.


I also planned on doing a tri first. But the more I thought about it the less I felt it was a good idea. The cost savings are minimal if any since a good servo costs as much as a motor. The extra mechanics just seemed like more to potentially go wrong and to need repairs/replacements when learning to fly. And a lot of people warned me that the Tri's are a bit more of a handful to fly when you're first starting. I still want to build one...but I'm thinking more and more about a V-tail first and don't regret doing my quad first at all.

 

[natodemon]

I've spent much longer than I should have today looking into FPV and all the components required to make it work and I soon realised that a PC monitor wouldn't be a good idea not just because of the blue screen issues but also the impracticality of lugging around a 20" monitor.

After a quick eBay search I found some very well priced 7" monitors that should do the job well. My plan is to use one of the mounts that connects the monitor to the radio and have the video rx attached on the back, creating a highly portable ground station

I've looked more into the Tricopter as it seems to be a very popular craft in the multirotor community with such a good build guide from David and many more from other members of the community. I also liked the ability to fold it up and the very strong yaw authority (I think that's the right word )

I'd be hesitant to crack open a brand new radio to make the changes you have, but if I see that they would make a big change to performance I would probably do them later on.

 

[jhitesma]

I'd be hesitant to crack open a brand new radio to make the changes you have, but if I see that they would make a big change to performance I would probably do them later on.

That's why I'm hesitant to fully suggest the 9x for a first radio. The stock software is barely usable. Upgrading it to open9x or er9x is pretty much required. The backlight isn't necessary but is REALLY nice to have and if you're going to open it up to add a programming socket then it's easy to add the backlight while you're in there and it's just a few bucks. There is the smartieparts board which gives a no-solder solution...but at an extra $40 by the time you add a smartie parts and a backlight the 9rx is pretty price competitive. If you've got the skills to solder the programmer yourself it's really the way to go.

If you're not up for popping open a brand new TX and modifying it then it may be better to stick with something lower end to get started with as the stock 9x software gets really frustrating fast. (and that beep...oh dear god that beep!) Heck even er9x and open9x are pretty overwhelming at first - but at least they're more intelligently labeled and better documented than the stock software.

 

[natodemon]

I'm not sure if my limited soldering skills would be up to something like that.

Do you know of any other beginner friendly radios that you could recommend? I would imagine that 6 channels is more than enough to begin with.