Phin G
Elite member
Ah ok, thanks
Heinkel plane 2021 challenge
- Thread starter Jesse Dupreez
- Start date
BlockerAviation
Legendary member
Oh, I didn't read that part of the challenge. In that case, I'll definitely not be able to join as I don't make plans for my scratch builds. Anyways, have fun guys!
Phin G
Elite member
Yes, this will be a first build that i make plans for however i think i know how to male plans, if not… YouTube
BlockerAviation
Legendary member
I'll just sit this one out if the requirements include plans, seeing that I chose a complicated airplane and really just don't like making plans
Jesse Dupreez
Active member
you can make a master series one and one with the lathe just to see how it flies
quorneng
Master member
The construction time frame is not the problem for me as I already have a home designed and built foamy Heinkel He162 but it is not really an FT type of construction.
It doesn't fly either! Two attempts, two sets of repairs. 10 seconds total air time!
It simply does not have enough power.
It doesn't fly either! Two attempts, two sets of repairs. 10 seconds total air time!
It simply does not have enough power.
Flightspeed
Convicted Necroposter
Could you add another cell? I’m assuming it’s three cell now?
Flightspeed
Convicted Necroposter
nice!
Ratcheeroo
Legendary member
So part of the challenge @quorneng is submitting plans and a build log so that others can build if they choose as I read it. Thats a reallllly nice plane you got going there but can it be replicated? I'm guessing that @kitten01 had that in mind, seems like maybe some people are confused about that aspect of the challenge although I may be completely wrong. Either way thats a cool plane my friend
quorneng
Master member
Ratcheeroo
I have available all the drawings that I used to build it so in theory anyone else could but I suspect if they could they could just as easily create them as I did from the internet. As it includes many printed parts, I do have the stl files, but you would need a printer to create them.
I did say in the first post it was not an FT type of construction. If such is required by the challenge then my Heinkel would most definitely not qualify but I will still follow the challenge progress with interest.
I have available all the drawings that I used to build it so in theory anyone else could but I suspect if they could they could just as easily create them as I did from the internet. As it includes many printed parts, I do have the stl files, but you would need a printer to create them.
I did say in the first post it was not an FT type of construction. If such is required by the challenge then my Heinkel would most definitely not qualify but I will still follow the challenge progress with interest.
Ratcheeroo
Legendary member
I'm not running the challenge so I can't tell you one way or the other, Maybe @kitten01 needs to clarify. Not trying to discourage you or anything like that from participating, hope you do, I'd like to see your plane fly
Jesse Dupreez
Active member
Updated rules:
-Build must be reasonably repeatable (complete balsa, fiber glass, or carbon fiber builds are not allowed, but these items may be used in the construction of the planes) Hotwire, 3d printed, foam board builds are all allowed. P.S. please suggest any i've missed
- Plans/videos/instructional guides should theoretically be provided. (the more actual plans the better)
- No limit on size. (wingspan, etc)
- No limit on amount of motors, except the plane must have 1 or more (no gliders).
- no limit to features
- If possible maiden footage should be included
- Build thread must be made
- participants are allowed to work together (ie: one designs and one builds)
- NO FLIGHT CONTROLLERS ALLOWED TO BE "HELPING" PILOT
- Please suggest additional rules.........
-Build must be reasonably repeatable (complete balsa, fiber glass, or carbon fiber builds are not allowed, but these items may be used in the construction of the planes) Hotwire, 3d printed, foam board builds are all allowed. P.S. please suggest any i've missed
- Plans/videos/instructional guides should theoretically be provided. (the more actual plans the better)
- No limit on size. (wingspan, etc)
- No limit on amount of motors, except the plane must have 1 or more (no gliders).
- no limit to features
- If possible maiden footage should be included
- Build thread must be made
- participants are allowed to work together (ie: one designs and one builds)
- NO FLIGHT CONTROLLERS ALLOWED TO BE "HELPING" PILOT
- Please suggest additional rules.........
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Jesse Dupreez
Active member
Determining the winner:
determined based off of stats by builder/pilot and community decisions.
#1: does it fly? 5 points. if not 0 points.
#2: Ease of build? 1-10 points.
#3: In air handling? 1-10 points.
#4: Scaleness? (compared to actual aircraft) 1-10 points.
#5: Stall speed? 1-10 points. lower stall the better
#6: Flight Envelope? 1-5 points. 5 for slowing down to a crawl, and also being able to travel fairly fast.
MAXIMUM POINTS 40.
PLEASE SUGGEST SOME MORE CRITERIA FOR JUDGING
determined based off of stats by builder/pilot and community decisions.
#1: does it fly? 5 points. if not 0 points.
#2: Ease of build? 1-10 points.
#3: In air handling? 1-10 points.
#4: Scaleness? (compared to actual aircraft) 1-10 points.
#6: Flight Envelope? 1-5 points. 5 for slowing down to a crawl, and also being able to travel fairly fast.
MAXIMUM POINTS 40.
PLEASE SUGGEST SOME MORE CRITERIA FOR JUDGING
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BlockerAviation
Legendary member
One thing I may suggest it that you get rid of the stall category, because quite a few of these airplanes will inheritly have a high stall speed, take for example @quorneng 's jet, that thing is probably going to have a stall speed of mach Jesus because of the stubby wings among other things. Just a suggestion
Jesse Dupreez
Active member
Jesse Dupreez
Active member
in terms of making it as easy to build and power.... if it is possible i would suggest you use an edf.
quorneng
Master member
My He 162 is really a bit 'over the top' as far as information for anybody else to build so I might try a Heinkel using my simpler? 5 mm XPS foam board technique as I have had some success with it but unfortunately none are Heinkels!
So how about an EDF He 178 EDF.
Actually quite a challenge as it used a tiny jet engine which results in seriously inadequate inlet and exhaust sizes for an EDF.
The history of the He178 is interesting in that Hans Von Ohain designed, built and patented what he called a 'garage' jet engine which just about worked in 1936. It was done completely independently of Frank Whittle. His professor at University wrote to Heinkel who arranged a meeting with Heinkel's engineers present. Heinkel could see the potential and set up Ohain in a lab with Heinkel's engineering facilities at his disposal.
The first engine made worked but only when using hydrogen as a fuel. The second HeS 3 used diesel fuel and was reliable enough for flight. All this work was done in secret and as a private venture as was the Heinkel designed small plane, the He 178, to put the 'flight' engine in. It achieved the first flight in 1939. It had a modest performance which did not impress the Luftwaffe officials when it was displayed to them
The He178 V-1 that flew in 1939.
Note the typical Heinkel wing shape. Secrecy resulted in very few photos of the V-1. The second prototype V-2 had bigger span straight taper wings. It was better photographed but never actually flew.
Although the RLM (German Air Ministry) were very interested there was concern that as a aircraft manufacturer Heinkel's team were not experienced enough to develop the jet engine. This view did not impress Ernest Heinkel who continued to fund development independently with the result that none of the more powerful Heinkel engines got past initial development before the end of the war whereas engines developed by engine manufacturers Junkers and BMW did.
Even in the UK it was only the 'intervention' by Rolls Royce that got Whittle's engine into full development and series production.
Apologies for the history lesson!
So how about an EDF He 178 EDF.
Actually quite a challenge as it used a tiny jet engine which results in seriously inadequate inlet and exhaust sizes for an EDF.
The history of the He178 is interesting in that Hans Von Ohain designed, built and patented what he called a 'garage' jet engine which just about worked in 1936. It was done completely independently of Frank Whittle. His professor at University wrote to Heinkel who arranged a meeting with Heinkel's engineers present. Heinkel could see the potential and set up Ohain in a lab with Heinkel's engineering facilities at his disposal.
The first engine made worked but only when using hydrogen as a fuel. The second HeS 3 used diesel fuel and was reliable enough for flight. All this work was done in secret and as a private venture as was the Heinkel designed small plane, the He 178, to put the 'flight' engine in. It achieved the first flight in 1939. It had a modest performance which did not impress the Luftwaffe officials when it was displayed to them
The He178 V-1 that flew in 1939.
Note the typical Heinkel wing shape. Secrecy resulted in very few photos of the V-1. The second prototype V-2 had bigger span straight taper wings. It was better photographed but never actually flew.
Although the RLM (German Air Ministry) were very interested there was concern that as a aircraft manufacturer Heinkel's team were not experienced enough to develop the jet engine. This view did not impress Ernest Heinkel who continued to fund development independently with the result that none of the more powerful Heinkel engines got past initial development before the end of the war whereas engines developed by engine manufacturers Junkers and BMW did.
Even in the UK it was only the 'intervention' by Rolls Royce that got Whittle's engine into full development and series production.
Apologies for the history lesson!
Ratcheeroo
Legendary member
I'm all about history my friend, no apologies necessary. You obviously think out of the box so to speak and like to challenge yourself . This is a very interesting plane.My He 162 is really a bit 'over the top' as far as information for anybody else to build so I might try a Heinkel using my simpler? 5 mm XPS foam board technique as I have had some success with it but unfortunately none are Heinkels!
So how about an EDF He 178 EDF.
Actually quite a challenge as it used a tiny jet engine which results in seriously inadequate inlet and exhaust sizes for an EDF.
The history of the He178 is interesting in that Hans Von Ohain designed, built and patented what he called a 'garage' jet engine which just about worked in 1936. It was done completely independently of Frank Whittle. His professor at University wrote to Heinkel who arranged a meeting with Heinkel's engineers present. Heinkel could see the potential and set up Ohain in a lab with Heinkel's engineering facilities at his disposal.
The first engine made worked but only when using hydrogen as a fuel. The second HeS 3 used diesel fuel and was reliable enough for flight. All this work was done in secret and as a private venture as was the Heinkel designed small plane, the He 178, to put the 'flight' engine in. It achieved the first flight in 1939. It had a modest performance which did not impress the Luftwaffe officials when it was displayed to them
The He178 V-1 that flew in 1939.
View attachment 205514
Note the typical Heinkel wing shape. Secrecy resulted in very few photos of the V-1. The second prototype V-2 had bigger span straight taper wings. It was better photographed but never actually flew.
Although the RLM (German Air Ministry) were very interested there was concern that as a aircraft manufacturer Heinkel's team were not experienced enough to develop the jet engine. This view did not impress Ernest Heinkel who continued to fund development independently with the result that none of the more powerful Heinkel engines got past initial development before the end of the war whereas engines developed by engine manufacturers Junkers and BMW did.
Even in the UK it was only the 'intervention' by Rolls Royce that got Whittle's engine into full development and series production.
Apologies for the history lesson!
