Two Plane Build Projects

[CatholicFlyer]

One is the Nieuport 24

The second is a plane from two paper towel cardboard rolls put together. In the first one I ask what RC Electronic engines and powerpack would make it fly like the real one and the second one, what powerpack if you did a build with the paper towel cardboard rolls, would you suggest.

 

[Chuppster]

Hmm, could you be more specific? Would you do just the fuselage with paper towel rolls or use it for the wings too? How big would this airplane be? How would you attach the rolls together?

 

[CatholicFlyer]

@Chuppster Well I was able to insert the tubes together, by squeezing one end of the tube to fit inside the other, I used Stock Card Paper, real tough and strong Paper for the wings, I made a plane that has a forward larger wing and rear wing, then there will be the tail. Thinking it would be either a six engine plane, the real droopy wings are the front and shorter wings are on the back. Then each wing will have the elevators, then the tail will have the elevator and rudder, thinking since it is so big, to add a second rudder.

 

[CatholicFlyer]

The tape is Gorilla Tape

 

[Chuppster]

I would say a "Power Pack B" would fly that alright. However, I would be sure that your wings can support the weight of the airplane plus the power pack and battery. Do you have a spar in the wings?

 

[CatholicFlyer]

@Chuppster not yet, but wanted to see what folks say that would get this thing in the air, then add the spar and braces.

 

[CatholicFlyer]

@Chuppster not yet, but wanted to see what folks say that would get this thing in the air, then add the spar and braces.

@Chuppster braces are in the wings, they be solid. Has anyone built a plane with a forward wing and rear wing and put six engines on it that I could watch, also on the droopy wings, wondering if there should be some sort of wheels on the end to help it?

 

[sprzout]

@Chuppster braces are in the wings, they be solid. Has anyone built a plane with a forward wing and rear wing and put six engines on it that I could watch, also on the droopy wings, wondering if there should be some sort of wheels on the end to help it?

If your wings are droopy, I don't think you're going to be able to strap 6 engines to it. Engines are a fair amount of weight, and you need the surfaces they're mounted to, to be structurally stable.

I think what we need is a bit of a lesson in basic flight before we start trying to design some of these planes, because there's a lot to consider. I'm certainly not the best at foam plane designs, but I can look and cobble something together that might be flight worthy based on someone else's plans.

Normally, I don't push links at people, but these guys do a pretty good job of giving the basics of flight in layman's terms, along with rudimentary aerodynamics to give you the ability of flight.

http://www.aviastar.org/theory/basics_of_flight/index.html

 

[Chuppster]

@Chuppster braces are in the wings, they be solid. Has anyone built a plane with a forward wing and rear wing and put six engines on it that I could watch, also on the droopy wings, wondering if there should be some sort of wheels on the end to help it?

I had to do a lot of learning before I was ready to begin designing (and I've only designed once, see the CH_F14 in my signature). I second what Sprzout is saying.

It looks like you are using Electrician's Tape to hold everything together. My experience with black tape is that it is really handy for insulating wires and whatnot, but I don't think it's the tape for the job when it comes to paper and cardboard. The reason for this is that it's very flexible, quite heavy, and it sticks well to itself but not the best to paper. I think you may find normal packaging tape to be more helpful, if you have access to it.

What you've built is a "Tandem Wing" airplane. This is a canard airplane that is similar to what you have, but the front wings are smaller. It's from Experimental Airlines, this guy is pretty neat. It only uses one engine, but I find it difficult to find too many RC planes that resemble a Tandem Wing.

 

[CatholicFlyer]

Okay, I found one plane with droopy wings, the North American XB-70 Valkyrie

"The outer portions of the B-70’s wings could pivot downward when in flight, partly to trap the shock wave from supersonic flight below the aircraft to generate “compression lift.” Drooping the wing tips also helped to trim the aircraft at high speeds by eliminating horizontal wing area at the rear of the wing, thus moving the aircraft’s center of lift forward. (The same technique works on many dart-type paper airplanes.)"

@sprzout @Chuppster and we're out of the boxing tape, used what I had for the first build.

 

[Chuppster]

@Mid7night did an XB-70 Valkyrie. It's a delta aircraft with canards. His was HUGE and used 6 70mm edf's to power it.

 

[CatholicFlyer]

Okay, I found one plane with droopy wings, the North American XB-70 Valkyrie

"The outer portions of the B-70’s wings could pivot downward when in flight, partly to trap the shock wave from supersonic flight below the aircraft to generate “compression lift.” Drooping the wing tips also helped to trim the aircraft at high speeds by eliminating horizontal wing area at the rear of the wing, thus moving the aircraft’s center of lift forward. (The same technique works on many dart-type paper airplanes.)"

@sprzout @Chuppster and we're out of the boxing tape, used what I had for the first build.

How do this in RC?


"Specifications (XB-70A) Edit
General characteristics

• Crew: 2
• Length: 185 ft 10 in (56.6 m)
• Wingspan: 105 ft 0 in (32 m)
• Height: 30 ft 9 in (9.4 m)
• Wing area: 6,296 ft² (585 m²)
• Airfoil: Hexagonal; 0.30 Hex modified root, 0.70 Hex modified tip
• Empty weight: 210,000 lb (93,000 kg)
• Loaded weight: 534,700 lb (242,500 kg)
• Max takeoff weight: 550,000 lb (250,000 kg)
• Powerplant: 6× General Electric YJ93-GE-3 afterburning turbojet
  • Dry thrust: 19,000 lbf (84.5 kN) each[45]
  • Thrust with afterburner: 28,800 lbf (128 kN) each"

 

[CatholicFlyer]

@Mid7night did an XB-70 Valkyrie. It's a delta aircraft with canards. His was HUGE and used 6 70mm edf's to power it.

How did it fly? @Mid7night @Chuppster

 

[Chuppster]

How did it fly? @Mid7night @Chuppster

Well, the first flight was an epic crash on the runway. The second flight was an epic crash on the downwind leg (if I remember correctly). Ben made videos of it.

 

[CatholicFlyer]

I flipped the two wing thing I created, wings are just like that of a corsair and when I sit it down on two books without the wings touching, it levels out completely. That is a good sign right? @Chuppster so I flipped over this plane and it doesn't have droopy wings, but wings of corsair or others like it, the secondary wing is not straight to the first, wonder if that would hurt cutting through the air?

 

[CatholicFlyer]

With the four elevators on two wings, here is a short tail and very big rudder. @Chuppster @sprzout

 

[Chuppster]

I flipped the two wing thing I created, wings are just like that of a corsair and when I sit it down on two books without the wings touching, it levels out completely. That is a good sign right? @Chuppster so I flipped over this plane and it doesn't have droopy wings, but wings of corsair or others like it, the secondary wing is not straight to the first, wonder if that would hurt cutting through the air?

Hmm, are you saying the wings droop unless you put a load on them, and with the weight of the airplane on them they level out?

That would give me some concern about the strength of the airframe, especially once you put electronics in it. If it's just a chuck glider you may be fine, but once electronics double your weight there may be a problem. You could try adding a foamboad spar through both wings, that should give you a good amount of rigidity. If you look at the build video for the FT Simple Cub it may give you some inspiration.

 

[CatholicFlyer]

@Chuppster no, when I flipped it over, the wings droop, but if I flip it on the up side, the wings are normal, which is weird. I think I will have to remake it with stiffer stuff though, because the weight of it together is making the weak cardboard to super weak.

 

[sprzout]

Hmm, are you saying the wings droop unless you put a load on them, and with the weight of the airplane on them they level out?

That would give me some concern about the strength of the airframe, especially once you put electronics in it. If it's just a chuck glider you may be fine, but once electronics double your weight there may be a problem. You could try adding a foamboad spar through both wings, that should give you a good amount of rigidity. If you look at the build video for the FT Simple Cub it may give you some inspiration.

I have to agree. What sort of distance are you getting on these when you fly them as a chuck glider? If they splat within about 10-15' of your launch, they're going to need some serious redesign, especially if they don't have electronics in them yet. Putting a battery pack and, per your request, 6 motors, each of which are approx. 30g a piece if you run something like an RS2202, plus an ESC for each motor, which is 4 grams per ESC, the wings aren't going to hold that weight.

Even if you stiffen the wing, now you're adding weight, which increases drag, and it simply won't fly. You'll need a larger wing area for lift and for more stability; what you're showing us currently just isn't feasible with electronics if the wings are already drooping in one direction without the added weight of the electronics. Remember, from the 4 forces affecting flight, weight affects lift, and drag affects thrust. You could have 1000 kg of thrust on that plane through tons of engines, but if the weight exceeds the lift ability, your plane is just going to drop like a rock every time you try to launch it.

 

[CatholicFlyer]

@sprzout as a chuck glider, I'm lucky if I get 3 feet, but the good thing is it floats down. As I told @Chuppster now it's put together and just finally settling, then doing chuck gliding, wings are coming off, so yeah, my design of the weird down wings of the B-52 only thing I know besides of XB-70. Well, time to go back to the drawing book. Any thoughts on how to build a two wing B-52?