Willy Nillie's Barnstormer Biplane

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
Ok so Cabanes are are what these supports are called no matter where they are? I always thought cabanes were where the wings get hard mounted to the fuselage and struts were where wing to wing connections are made.

Most of all I think I am reading these planes ARENT good for any real 3d stuff and are more crop duster type flying then stunt flying?
 

Piotrsko

Master member
Most of all I think I am reading these planes ARENT good for any real 3d stuff and are more crop duster type flying then stunt flying?
Look at Hangar's avatar. Bipes were flying serious 3D long before there were sukhois and edges. It's a function of CG, weight, thrust and surface deflection/force. We used them because of the short extremely stout wing which would roll phenomenally fast.
 

rockyboy

Skill Collector
Mentor
Thanks Doug! I'll get #32's instead of #33's - they carry UV resistant ones in black on Amazon :D

And to clarify the terminology https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracing_(aeronautics) Doug's correct - Cabanes go from fuselage to wing when the wing is above the fuselage, Interplane Struts go between the wings, and Lift Struts brace between the wing and fuselage when the wing is already connected to the fuselage. It's complicated! :D

And I built the wings way too long on the Barnstormer Bipe to be a serious 3D aerobatic design - she'll be much more in the general aerobatics / crop duster range. The wing loading I ended up with shows that probably two more wing ribs could be cut off and she would be more in that high acrobatic range :D
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
Look at Hangar's avatar. Bipes were flying serious 3D long before there were sukhois and edges. It's a function of CG, weight, thrust and surface deflection/force. We used them because of the short extremely stout wing which would roll phenomenally fast.

I didnt mean bi planes in general but these particular balsa models Rockyboy is building. I have a 1400mm Dynam Pitts Python hanging from my curtain rods that is supposed to be VERY 3d capable should I ever get to that point.
 

rockyboy

Skill Collector
Mentor
We have flight!! :cool:

My friend @wilmracer got the video, so it'll be coming when he gets a minute to process it. But she flew! Twice even! :D

So here's the story...

About 10:00am, 27 degrees F (about -3 for the C parts of the world) and no wind at all. Best flying day we've had in a month! Because of the small wheels on the bipe, I unfolded a cardboard box and put down a 2 meter runway for takeoff. I plugged everything in and started to waggle the controls - and discovered that while I did bind the radio to this receiver, I didn't actually complete the channel programming. So about 10 minutes later the rudder and elevator were on the correct sticks and everything was set to be neutral.

Camera rolling, advanced the stick about 1/2 to get rolling and then 3/4 before the end of the cardboard - and she flew! Very wiggly - a little tail heavy, and ballooned up whenever I bipped the throttle (needs more downthrust for sure). With the combination of two flat wings (no dihedral) and tail heavy, let's say she was "aerodynamically unstable" :ROFLMAO: I chased her around the sky for a couple circuits, and decided to bring her in for a landing to adjust weight before something regrettable happened. When I lined up down the runway and cut the throttle back to about 1/8 she settled down into the approach great - another big clue that there is a thrust angle adjustment needing to be made! As expected, she nosed over once the wheels hit the frozen grass, but she was plenty slow and no damage. Success! (y)

That was so much fun, I wanted to do it again right away! So I stuck another 1/2 ounce of lead under the nose, checked all the control surfaces again, and lined up on the cardboard runway. Same takeoff procedure and she lept into the air feeling a good bit more stable this time! I spent about 3 or 4 minutes doing circuits and a couple loops - she has loads of power with an 1806 2400kv / 6x3 / 3s450 setup and plenty of elevator and aileron authority. I want to look at the rudder a little closer as it seemed to be fine on left turns, but less effective on rights. Maybe control rod flexing? Anyway, she still ballooned up when the thrust was on - right now the motor is dead center and she probably needs 3 degrees down bubble with these two flat bottom wings providing plenty of lift.

So I was thinking about digging in my field box for some washers and brought her around for a landing. Yeah, this is the sad part of the story coming up. I had a bit too much speed on when the wheels touched for landing and she nosed over a good bit harder - almost a full cartwheel I think, but will need to review the video on that. Bent one of the landing gear wires back 15 degrees or so, and tore loose one half of the elevator hinges - both simple fixes, but not something I wanted to do with shaky fingers in below freezing weather, so she got packed back up for the day (well, until I went by the local hobby shop to show her off!.

I am sure she is going to be a great flyer with a few tweaks - excited to get her back to the field again soon! :D

IMG_20191221_103645.jpg


Here was the fleet for the morning and the cardboard runway - since it was there I used it for the All Star bipe too. Worked great! :D

IMG_20191221_103652.jpg
 
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Willy Nillies

Elite member
Hi Jon!

I'm so sorry, I forgot to mention to you that you'd need down thrust with the two semi-symmetrical wings. Our Littlest Stick uses the same airfoil/wing plan form and we use 3.5 degrees down thrust on it.

I'm thinking I need to lengthen the nose about 3/4 to 1 inch and possibly shorten the tail about 1/2 inch for biplane configuration. And add at least 3 degrees down thrust! :)

It sounds like you had some fun though, so that's good!!!!

Thank you for the flight report, can't wait to see the video!

Sincerely,
Doug and Becky
WillyNillies.com
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
That littlestick looks good. I think thats the kit I am going to order in the next few days now that I have the account sorted out thanks to Doug.

Would you guys recommend it as a belly lander or should I add gear to it? So far in my order list (hopefully the cart stays full after exiting if not completed) Is the stick kit, the finishing kit, two cub yellow cover packs for when I repair the Cub I have, the aluminum landing gear, 1.5 inch wheels, a silver cover pack, the cox engine motor mount and probably a handful of those CHNL 3s packs as they will double in my Gremlin quite nicely. will just have to change it over to xt30s to match everything else.

Not sure what colors to order for the plane.. I am thinking the blue metallic for the fuse and the clear purple for the wings so I can mess around with lighting maybe.
 

rockyboy

Skill Collector
Mentor
Hi Jon!

I'm so sorry, I forgot to mention to you that you'd need down thrust with the two semi-symmetrical wings. Our Littlest Stick uses the same airfoil/wing plan form and we use 3.5 degrees down thrust on it.

I'm thinking I need to lengthen the nose about 3/4 to 1 inch and possibly shorten the tail about 1/2 inch for biplane configuration. And add at least 3 degrees down thrust! :)

It sounds like you had some fun though, so that's good!!!!

Thank you for the flight report, can't wait to see the video!

Sincerely,
Doug and Becky
WillyNillies.com

I knew it would probably need some down thrust, but I just loved how the motor looked mounted tight up against the firewall and didn't want to have to put spacers behind the Faux mount unless I really had to. But we really have to! :LOL:

Ya know, it would be a really nice touch to have 2 degrees down and right built into the 3D printed mount... :unsure:

But I think those changes would make it about perfect - and take off the need for at least an ounce of this extra lead up front! :D I'm excited to see the videos too - and to get her back in the air again! The extra weight I'm carrying around will keep my landing speed a little faster than a lighter version, but the wing loading is still at the low end of the "trainer" range and she's very nimble in the sky! She might not rise in a thermal, but she's a winner in my book! :cool:
 

rockyboy

Skill Collector
Mentor
That littlestick looks good. I think thats the kit I am going to order in the next few days now that I have the account sorted out thanks to Doug.

Would you guys recommend it as a belly lander or should I add gear to it? So far in my order list (hopefully the cart stays full after exiting if not completed) Is the stick kit, the finishing kit, two cub yellow cover packs for when I repair the Cub I have, the aluminum landing gear, 1.5 inch wheels, a silver cover pack, the cox engine motor mount and probably a handful of those CHNL 3s packs as they will double in my Gremlin quite nicely. will just have to change it over to xt30s to match everything else.

Not sure what colors to order for the plane.. I am thinking the blue metallic for the fuse and the clear purple for the wings so I can mess around with lighting maybe.

I would go belly lander on that one - but that's just because I don't have anywhere I can fly small wheel planes without them getting stuck in the grass. As a belly lander, once you get her all covered, just add a strip of clear packing tape on the bottom of the chin so it'll handle some rough ground cover. And yes for transparent covering - show off that sexy nekkid balsa! :D
 

PsyBorg

Wake up! Time to fly!
I will have to poke yer noggin at some point about a covering iron needed to complete this. I assume a temp controlled unit is a necessity and not something like the old soldering irons that determine heat by wattage ratings. I like that little iron that Joker used on his as it hit all the tight spots without having to work a huge head in between things.
 

rockyboy

Skill Collector
Mentor
All the usual covering iron options - at the usual prices - are available here:

https://www.centralhobbies.com/cat3.php?cat=14&subcat=93

I've got one of the little trim irons and almost never use it - just the standard size one. If you want to try out a trim iron before committing to buying one of these lemme know and I'll toss it in the mail up to you.

For the lightweight covering that these use, the heat gun is more like a blow torch! just do the shrinking with an iron on these little guys.
 

kilroy07

Legendary member
Getting closer.... here she is with all the base colors...

View attachment 149988

I did go with a black pinstripe to separate the red and white panels (and found some black rubber bands for the top wing mounting), but decided to stick with the iron cross for the main vinyl pieces.

View attachment 149989
I did throw a little bit of nautical in there with the diving helmet squadron insignia - completely fictitious but I ran across the image and thought it was cool. :)

View attachment 149990

Still on the to do list:
  • Install control horns
  • Experiment with checkerboard trim for tail
  • Install 3D printed Cox motor mount
  • Install outer wheel collars
  • Final weight and balance
Wow, that is really well done! If mine comes out looking half as nice I will be thrilled!!
 

rockyboy

Skill Collector
Mentor
Great flyer and really fun video editing! (y)

And yeah, I'm chewing my nails off waiting for the video too! :oops: I'm sure @wilmracer will get to it when he has a chance - very busy work and family life for him recently, and I completely understand that it's taking a little while to get around to the video uploading.
 

wilmracer

I build things that fly (sometimes)
Mentor
So here is the video I got of @rockyboy flying his Barnstormer. She looks FANTASTIC in person. Rockyboy is a magician with balsa covering jobs. His models are incredibly clean and well done.

I'm not happy with the quality of the video here. I've been using the same camera for the last 5 or 6 seasons and I really had it figured out. For this season I picked up a similar new model that shoots in 4K. So far I haven't worked out the right focus settings (and the grey skies didn't help). It is also MUCH more sensitive on the zoom, so I'm looking for a way to slow that down as well. I really hope I get it figured out soon because my older RC videos were much cleaner.

With all that said, here you go :)